Stak-its

[mark m.]

I, recently failed an inspection for installing a 14-3 romex wire in a 3-M type stak-it or stand off.
Apparently, the 3M stak-it is not UL listed to hold a 14-3 wire only 14-2, 12-2, & 10-2.
Is there a stak-it that can accommodate a 14-3 wire? (other than a metal colorado jim type)
I like the 3-M stak-its, but if they cannot hold a 14-3 than there no good to me.

 

[goldstar]

Re: Stak-its

Arlington makes a cable stand-off. Try their website and you should find it. Some overzealous inspectors feel it's their duty to fail you for the most insignificant stuff just to let you know they're the AHJ. Technically, he is correct but in reality, you only have to keep the wire back 1 1/4" off the face of the stud. I've never failed for this issue but I'm sure it's only a matter of time before I run into an inspector made from the same rib as yours. I've seen installations where there are multiple wires slid into the same row on a "stak-it" and didn't fail inspection.

[ February 23, 2005, 06:10 AM: Message edited by: goldstar ]

 

[peter d]

Re: Stak-its

I agree, if you can't put a 12/3 or 14/3 in a "Stak It," then they are worthless.

I have used hundreds of stack its and wasn't aware of that restriction. After all, we never use 3 wire cable, do we? :roll:

 

[toddro1971]

Re: Stak-its

According to 3m they do hold 14/3 go here.
Cable Stacker

 

[peter d]

Re: Stak-its

Todd,

The furring strip stacker is listed for round cables, but not the far more common one designed for mounting to the side of a stud.

With this information in hand, I will no longer purchase 3M stackers.

 

[allenwayne]

Re: Stak-its

To ease our purchasing we use the furring type all the time and instead of stocking a second type of stacker(for stud walls) we just back to back 2 of these on a stud wall when the amount of cable assemblies get up there in number

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: Stak-its

Talk about busting your chops. :roll:

 

[apauling]

Re: Stak-its

if 3M gets its act together and ul lists for 3 wire, what inspector would take the time to see if old ones or new ones are installed. Man, as an inspector, that gives me a bad taste. I didn't read in the code that the distance from the face of the stud was to be fixed by a listed device. Can any one cite code reference for that (for example, in bonding it specifically calls for listed device)? I don't remember that in the 99 and haven't yet seen it in 2002.

paul

 

[tshea]

Re: Stak-its

I'm glad we don't require those in Wisconsin!

 

[paul]

Re: Stak-its

From their website it states that it's good for flat cable from 14/2 to 10/2 and ROUND CABLE up to .30" in diameter. Anyone know what the diameter of 14/3 is?

 

[luke warmwater]

Re: Stak-its

I didn't look at the site for the listing, but how 'bout:
14/2, 12/2, 10/2 in stacker and zip-tie the 14/3 to one of those and move on.

You might need running boards next to the stackers too.?.

 

[speedypetey]

Re: Stak-its

If I had an inspector fail me for that I'd find another. That is petty and overzealous.
I AM NOT one to skirt the codes but come on.

I know he is the AHJ, I get his bill every month. :roll:

 

[infinity]

Re: Stak-its

The worst part of using the Stack-it as per it's listing on the bag is that the instructions allow you to use 14-2 Romex but not 14-3 or 12-3. The biggest joke of that scenario is that you can literally pull the 14-2 or 12-2 for that matter right through several Stack-its. They seem to have a much tighter grip on the wider round cable. As previously stated in this thread maybe 3-M needs to get on with listing the product for a wider range of uses and have it printed on the instructions that come with the product.

 

[johndeereman]

Re: Stak-its

I also had an inspector reject one of my jobs because of stack its because I had a total of 5 14-2s in it & the listing states that you need to derate when you have more than 4-2wires installed in them. I did find a diffrent brand @ Home Deport that list that you can have 8-2wires as well as 3wires this brand I think is GB brand.

luke warmwater I didn't look at the site for the listing, but how 'bout:
14/2, 12/2, 10/2 in stacker and zip-tie the 14/3 to one of those and move on.

Art.300.11(C) you can't use cables to support other cables.

 

[pierre]

Re: Stak-its

Labeling and listing is a way the inspector can judge what a product is good for. Otherwise he would not know how it will perform under certain situations.

Would you want the person repairing the plane you fly on to say the hell with it, this will do since I cannot afford the proper item?

That being said, the afore mentioned stacker is listed for:
1. 1-8* each 14-2 W/G (15 Amperes)
2. 1-4 each 12-2 W/G (20 Amperes)
3. 1-4 each 10-2 W/G (30 Amperes)

* When placing 5-8 14-2 W/G into the 3M Cable Stacker, derating of the conductor ampacity should be considered.

Stak-it Sl-1 can also be used in routing, fastening, and supporting CATV, telephone, security and instrumentation cables.


3M makes cable stakers listed for 3-wire installations - I am not sure why they are not sold on the shelves next to the others.
There are other manufacturers that have the 3-wire type available as well.
If the 3-wire type was not available okay. but they are available and commonplace.


"The devil is in the detail"

I say that inspector is doing his job and doing it well. Nit picking is one thing, following the code is another - as I have mentioned in another post, this is what separates us from the "busy bees" flying out of the big box stores. Oh yeah - PRIDE in our work!!!

BTW - I would not fail an inspection the first time I see this with a contractor, but let him know that he needs to be aware of the details, and maybe read a few instructions once in a while. As a matter of fact, we are very active in our IAEI meetings discussing this type of situation.

[ February 22, 2005, 11:34 PM: Message edited by: pierre ]

 

[curt swartz]

Re: Stak-its

According to 3M the SI-1 stacker is designed for round cable up to .3? (8mm) so 14-3 should be fine. The 3M stackers are not UL listed for and size wire, they are NOT UL listed. UL does not list this type of item. Staples for type NM cable are not UL listed. Straps for conduit are not UL listed. I would call and talk to this inspectors supervisor.

 

[goldstar]

Re: Stak-its

I say that inspector is doing his job and doing it well. Nit picking is one thing, following the code is another

Pierre, I'm all for an inspector doing his job whether it's nit-picking or not. Many times it's a learning experience. As a result of this, 3-M will probably begin selling fewer and fewer of this type "Stak-It". However, in this case I think is more a case of "Hey, I just found out something new that I can bust chops about - let's see how many unsuspecting, hard working electricians who think their work is neat and workmanlike that I could make change this because I'm the A H J" type attitude.

Do your job as an inspector but don't throw your weight around just because you can. It's obvoius this man worked hard to make his installation neat and workmanlike by using these devices. Changing out these devices may not seem like a great hardship but holding up the job for one more inspection cycle may be.

 

[electricaldoc]

Re: Stak-its

Characteristics Flat Cable Size Range 14-2 W/G to 10-2 W/G
Primary Trademark Name 3M
Round Cable Size Range 14-3 W/G to 10-3 W/G (10MM)

This is strait from 3M site.
I know flat cable is normal romex, but what is round type?

 

[luke warmwater]

Re: Stak-its

Originally posted by johndeereman:
I also had an inspector reject one of my jobs because of stack its because I had a total of 5 14-2s in it & the listing states that you need to derate when you have more than 4-2wires installed in them. I did find a diffrent brand @ Home Deport that list that you can have 8-2wires as well as 3wires this brand I think is GB brand.

luke warmwater I didn't look at the site for the listing, but how 'bout:
14/2, 12/2, 10/2 in stacker and zip-tie the 14/3 to one of those and move on.

Art.300.11(C) you can't use cables to support other cables.

You misunderstood me.
zip-tie the wires to each stack-it.

Drive a staple next to the stack-its and zip-tie to that.
There are many ways to be 'code compliant'.

I personally don't use the things, we bore holes.

 

[allenwayne]

Re: Stak-its

What if you zip tied nm cable assys. to the back of a stacker,still secured within required measurments.Not secured to other cables To me this is code compliant.