Pigtails, Aluminiu, AFCI devices, and what defines Modifying a circuit

Status
Not open for further replies.

grgarber

Member
Location
Dayton, OH
Scenario: Existing residential apartment complex was completely wired with aluminium wire and aluminium/copper non-tamper resistant devices. Insurance is requiring all aluminium connections (even connections that are being made to the aluminium/copper devices) to be replaced with a pigtail with an aluminium to copper wire nut. Building is old enough that the existing load centers are non-arc fault protected.

Question A: If I pull out the existing devices, disconnect the device, install a copper pigtail and reinstall the existing device back in place, does that constitute modifying the circuit and thus requiring me to bring the circuit up to the latest code including but not limited to installing a new tamper-resistant device? What are the requirements that would force me to bring the said circuit up to code? I believe the arc-fault exemption in 210.2(B) would exempt me from adding arc-fault protection. This would exemption would not allow me to add an exhaust hood to the existing circuit without updating the circuit.

Question B: Due to the replacement of all aluminium connections, we are required to install pigtails in load center as well. Am I allowed to splice all of these conductors inside of the load center? Similar to Question A, would this constitute modify the circuit and requiring me to bringing the circuit up to code?

Question C: If we replaced the existing load centers with new load centers with arc-fault "combination" breakers, would they sufficiently protect against overheating from aluminium wiring issues? Maybe a cheaper option than going through entire unit and rewiring all devices.

Thank you for all the help in advance! They have an "consulting engineer" helping them on this project, but I don't think they are thinking through this 100%.
 

JDB3

Senior Member
Back when we used aluminum wire or even copper clad aluminum wire, the wire was #10. We never had an issue that I recall with the wire or devices. Some of the devices were even "quick-wired" (stabbed in), with no problems.
Of course, the insurance company can want most anything. Has anyone considered pointing some things to them like all the products were/are listed for the way they were installed, etc..
To me, pig-tailing the wires to copper, just opens up another possible problem point!
 

grgarber

Member
Location
Dayton, OH
I have a conference call with the architect and engineer tomorrow. I am just trying to make sure that I am not crazy and that there is actually an issue. :)

They are also replacing the GFI receptacles in the kitchen, which also makes me wonder if I will be required to protect these devices with some type of AFCI protection.
 

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
Pigtailing copper in probably constitutes modifying the circuit enough to warrant AFCI. If you're asking legally, I dont know and wouldnt tell you if I did.

I'd seriously check into Alumiconns vs Al/Co wirenuts

As to Question C: no AFCI I know of is going to prevent substandard or overworked/overloaded wiring from overheating. Melted devices and the like are probably due to poor/aged terminations vs undersized wire.
 

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
I'd seriously check into Alumiconns vs Al/Co wirenuts

i've seen purple wirenuts melt just like red ones.

copalum, given the occupancy you are working with, would
be all i'd consider using. not many people are available to do
it however, and getting certified yourself was, last time i looked,
pretty sucky.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSTlBWGu3pM
 

JDB3

Senior Member
Pigtailing copper in probably constitutes modifying the circuit enough to warrant AFCI. If you're asking legally, I dont know and wouldnt tell you if I did.

I was thinking that unless you added 6 feet to the circuit, AFCI were not required?
 

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
i've seen purple wirenuts melt just like red ones.

copalum, given the occupancy you are working with, would
be all i'd consider using. not many people are available to do
it however, and getting certified yourself was, last time i looked,
pretty sucky.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSTlBWGu3pM

The alumiconns are better than the purple wire nuts. Here's their info:

http://www.kinginnovation.com/products/20/3-port-alumiconn

That it is CPSC approved should be enough for the insurance co. Same price about as purple wire nuts ($3 ea), run cooler, smaller than the wire nuts and easier to fit in tight boxes.

If he has a ton of connections to do, and it sounds like that, the Copalum system would be worth it.
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
Pigtailing copper in probably constitutes modifying the circuit enough to warrant AFCI.
grgarber: I would ask whether it could be considered extending the circuit less than 6' (and less than 6") by putting the pigtail in, although that consideration is more often applied to the panel end of the run.
If you are not replacing the receptacles themselves and thus triggering mandatory AFCI, I suspect an AHJ would approve. But this is a gray enough area nationwide that you really need to find out from your own AHJ how they interpret it.
 

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
Pigtailing copper in probably constitutes modifying the circuit enough to warrant AFCI. If you're asking legally, I dont know and wouldnt tell you if I did.

I was thinking that unless you added 6 feet to the circuit, AFCI were not required?

I thought that was on the panel end. idk. VA isnt under the 14 NEC so I dont have it to see.

We had this convo last week; even replacing 3 prong receptacles under the 14 NEC requires AFCI unless one of the exceptions is met. and really, if you are removing them to add pigtails, you might as well replace them. You can just cut them loose vs having to remove every wire. Probably a bit more money parts vs labor, but if you are adding a ton of AFCI, might as well do the receptacles too - they are pushing 45 years old if original and wired to aluminum.

eta: if you replace them, you can spend time in the shop making and adding pigtails instead of someone's house. Doing it assembly line style in a shop will save labor vs doing it all in the field.
 

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
i've seen purple wirenuts melt just like red ones.

copalum, given the occupancy you are working with, would
be all i'd consider using. not many people are available to do
it however, and getting certified yourself was, last time i looked,
pretty sucky.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSTlBWGu3pM

Yeah, the tool is major $$$$ ($20,000 or more comes to mind) and of course the required training that comes with it. You need to be doing AL to CU work on a steady basis to make any financial sense of that one.
 

user 100

Senior Member
Location
texas
Questions answered in blue......

Scenario: Existing residential apartment complex was completely wired with aluminium wire and aluminium/copper non-tamper resistant devices. Insurance is requiring all aluminium connections (even connections that are being made to the aluminium/copper devices) to be replaced with a pigtail with an aluminium to copper wire nut. Building is old enough that the existing load centers are non-arc fault protected.

Question A: If I pull out the existing devices, disconnect the device, install a copper pigtail and reinstall the existing device back in place, does that constitute modifying the circuit and thus requiring me to bring the circuit up to the latest code including but not limited to installing a new tamper-resistant device? What are the requirements that would force me to bring the said circuit up to code? I believe the arc-fault exemption in 210.2(B) would exempt me from adding arc-fault protection. This would exemption would not allow me to add an exhaust hood to the existing circuit without updating the circuit.

The 210.12(B) 6 foot exception is mainly for panel replacements and that 6 feet is going to disappear awfully quick (just doing 4" pt's at each device means the 6ft is gone after 6 devices) after all those pigtails- thus invoking 210.12.

If you replace the devices, 406.4 (D 4&5) tells you about AFCI requirements and TP (TP devices are further elaborated on in 406.12)- you need them both.

Question B: Due to the replacement of all aluminium connections, we are required to install pigtails in load center as well. Am I allowed to splice all of these conductors inside of the load center? Similar to Question A, would this constitute modify the circuit and requiring me to bringing the circuit up to code?

Yes, you can splice in the panel and again you are most likely stuck with 210.12 unless provided an exemption by your ahj- remember that 6 ft exception is already gone before you even start on the panel splices.

Question C: If we replaced the existing load centers with new load centers with arc-fault "combination" breakers, would they sufficiently protect against overheating from aluminium wiring issues? Maybe a cheaper option than going through entire unit and rewiring all devices.

Use of this forums search function will give you more than enough opinion about AFCIs......

And lastly, I strongly recommend and second the use of the Alumiconn product posted by JFletcher vs. the purple wire nut.


Thank you for all the help in advance! They have an "consulting engineer" helping them on this project, but I don't think they are thinking through this 100%.
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
The 6' exception is total?? I was figuring per circuit. How exactly does the 14 NEC read on that?

The question is whether it is cumulative over the entire length of the circuit or separately at the origin and each outlet. I do not think that the code is clear.
But I do not see a pigtail at an intermediate box being counted as extending the downstream circuits. If anything it makes them a fraction of an inch shorter. :)
 

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
Yeah, the tool is major $$$$ ($20,000 or more comes to mind) and of course the required training that comes with it. You need to be doing AL to CU work on a steady basis to make any financial sense of that one.

it's leased, not sold, and it's about $100 a week when i was looking
at doing this. they used more aluminum wire in so calif in the 60's
and 70's than you can imagine..... and when i looked, there were
about a dozen copalum certified guys here.... their marketing
strategy sucks, or just doesn't work well. it's a couple thousand to
get someone certified, the then tool lease...... :happysad:

however, it's the best solution. :(
 

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
it's leased, not sold, and it's about $100 a week when i was looking
at doing this. they used more aluminum wire in so calif in the 60's
and 70's than you can imagine..... and when i looked, there were
about a dozen copalum certified guys here.... their marketing
strategy sucks, or just doesn't work well. it's a couple thousand to
get someone certified, the then tool lease...... :happysad:

however, it's the best solution. :(

Bummer. I guess Alumicons are the way to go for the average electrician, even though the copalum system is pretty sweet. In my area, AL never caught on. I've seen a few AL branch circuits, one house that was CU clad AL but never an all AL wired dwelling.
 

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
Bummer. I guess Alumicons are the way to go for the average electrician, even though the copalum system is pretty sweet. In my area, AL never caught on. I've seen a few AL branch circuits, one house that was CU clad AL but never an all AL wired dwelling.

You're lucky then. Just about every house here from the late 60s to early 70s has AL wire. Worked at one today with 5 generations of wire: the original BX (30s), then some 50s 2 wire cloth NM, then some late 60s/early 70s Al, then some early 80s thick white NM, and finally some newer NM. I'm sure if I had looked harder I would have found some knobs from old K&T as well.

Never seen the Copalum system used, tho istm that if you have very short wires it might not be able to cold weld those to Cu pigtails. Alumincons, if you have two inches of usuable wire, you're gtg.
 

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
You're lucky then. Just about every house here from the late 60s to early 70s has AL wire.

I think I would hate doing electrical work if I ran into it that often. :sick:

For us, I think it has a lot to do with several factors as to why it's so rare. The majority of our housing boom ended in the mid 60's and by the 1970's the majority of buildable land in the suburbs had been eaten up with tracts. We didn't have a lot of new housing going up after that and has been steadily declining ever since. But, even when I run into housing from the AL time period, most homes are still wired with copper. If I had to put my best guess on it, it would have to do with ultra skeptical New Englanders who are hesitant to try new products. I'm sure AL was viewed with heavy skepticism like most new products are here.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top