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    Foyers

    I would like to know if a large Foyers is considered living space or a hallway when applying the previsions of NEC 210.52 for useable wall space.

    #2
    Re: Foyers

    a foyer in a single family residence???

    a foyer is a lobby, or large ante-room. it is not a hallway. Since it is a residence, whatever you call the room, entry, porch, foyer. it needs to comply with wall spacing req's.

    paul

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      #3
      Re: Foyers

      I'm not all that sure Paul. Although I would include the receptacles, it might be a judgement call on the part of the AHJ as to whether or not it's a "similar room or area" under 210.52(A). At least I could see it being called either way.
      Sam, San Francisco Bay Area

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        #4
        Re: Foyers

        I guess it really depends on if it looks like a room. If a bunch of bedrooms exit directly off the living room, the living room doesn't become a hall for outlet spacing. Some kitchens look like halls but that doesn't mean that outlet spacing can be altered there as well.

        I think it was a real question and deserved a real answer. We could spend 10 pages arguing "similar", "closet", etc. We all know the intent of the one outlet in the hall exception, and if it looks like a hall, I wouldn't consider it a problem, even if it was called a formal dining room on the plans. But a foyer is actually defined as an ante-room to a theatre, has been extended to formal entry, and has never been defined as a hall.

        paul :cool:

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          #5
          Re: Foyers

          Around here average homes have halls, expensive homes have Foyers.

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            #6
            Re: Foyers

            The older dwellings I deal with in the Minneapolis area also have "vestibules" that act as air locks between the outside and the foyer. The foyer will include the stairs to the next floor, a route to the basement, kitchen and living room. On occasion the foyer is expansive enough to have a baby grand in it. As a rule, there is not a lot of wall area what with all the doorways and stairwell.

            But, I find my customers are very interested in adding receptacles to the old underwired dwellings for where the furnishings gather. In new construction, the common sense of this, to me at least, is to sell up from what might be argued as the NEC minimum. If the traffic pattern goes through paths that are 3' wide, its arguable its all a hallway, IMO.
            Another Al in Minnesota

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              #7
              Re: Foyers

              I say hallway although I would wire it with more than one receptacle. Here is one mans opinion.
              http://www.ul.com/regulators/ode/1104.pdf

              [ February 04, 2005, 10:02 AM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]
              [COLOR="Navy"]There are two kinds of people - those smart enough to know they donít know, and those dumb enough to insist they do[/COLOR].-----Margery Eagan

              [COLOR="DarkRed"]Open shop since 1988[/COLOR]

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                #8
                Re: Foyers

                This one of those seriously gray areas of the NEC.There is no formal definition in the Nec that defines what is a hall/fpyer and what constitutes a simular area.We have inspectors that go under the pretense that if it a large enough area that allows a table or a cabinet to be placed then th 2 ft. rule applies.Same senario different imspector he considers it a hall/foyer and one required as set forth in the NEC,I tell my guys that if it large enough to put furniture then add a receptacle in accordance with the 2 ft.,6ft rules.Have had all to many finals where it passed on rough and was failed on trim out.To me it`s cheaper to add a receptacle than have drywall damage,tag,delays etc.Same as what constitutes a hall that requires a light and switch.I have had an inspector require a light and switch in a 3 ft. X 3 ft. area that has a barrel ceiling 7 1/2 ft AFF.This was just a deco arch but he called it a hallway and required a light and switch

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                  #9
                  Re: Foyers

                  in my opinion a foyer is no different than a hallway, I agree some of these foyers should have more than one, but I do not think the code is clear on it.I do not think a foyer is similar to the rooms listed in 210.52

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                    #10
                    Re: Foyers

                    The whole problem is the wording from defined areas/rooms to simular area,what constitutes a simular area

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                      #11
                      Re: Foyers

                      Defining these areas is troublesome. We've had hallway-entry problems in the past, I've tried to think up a definition. Architects are so much more clever at creating hallways than we are at definitions!

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                        #12
                        Re: Foyers

                        I say just think about the contents of an ideal foyer and use common sense when adding plugs. I do not say this in negative connotation. Think happy thoughts. Breathe in , Breathe out. OOOOOssee fraaaba.
                        Chris Hill, EE,ME,GA-CR
                        Power Factor Correction

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                          #13
                          Re: Foyers

                          Problem is, the plans show one outlet in what I'd call a hallway, it looks like a hallway, and AHJ says it's a piece of a room requiring more outlets. In a difficult wall. Get chewed for adding more. Ya'mean?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Foyers

                            It is whatever the architect calls it and the plans should be labeled.
                            Charlie Eldridge, Indianapolis, Utility Power Guy[COLOR=red][/COLOR]

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                              #15
                              Re: Foyers

                              I've done drawings for the building department in order to get the permit. I've never tried to be misleading but I'd expect the drawings wouldn't get accepted if something didn't fit the description. If it got noticed anyway.
                              Sam, San Francisco Bay Area

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