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GEC Not long enough to get from rebar in footer to main service disco

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    GEC Not long enough to get from rebar in footer to main service disco

    Here is the scenario:

    * Service located during footer pour, a 1/0 cu wire properly tied to rebar in footer before the pour.
    * Service location changed by owner/GC after footer pour complete.
    * 1/0 wire not long enough to get to new location of the main service disco outside.

    The plan is to do what is drawn in attached photo. I drew this with a mouse in Photoshop so sorry for the crappy job.

    The existing 1/0 from the rebar inside the footer will be taken to a ground rod where it will pass through without splicing to another ground rod where it will be terminated on a clamp. Each ground rod will have 2 listed/labeled clamps. Where the GEC from the footer goes through the ground rod, the second clamp will then be use to connect 1/0 to the exterior 2" cu water pipe. The 2nd rod which will be closer to the main disco will use one clamp to terminate the end of the GEC coming from the concrete encased electrode and the other clamp to attach new 1/0 that will then continue on to the service disco where it will terminate at the neutral bar lug.

    This is not the method I want to use, I don't believe this would be a code compliant installation since the GEC needs to be continuous and building steel is available.

    For those that ask why we are using ground rods at all, I can't answer that other than they are show on the prints, otherwise not required due to the CEE.

    My plan was to:

    1) Irreversible crimp to join the existing 1/0 and a piece that is long enough to get to the service disco.
    2) Add another irreversible crimp to add a pice of 1/0 to run over to the 2" water pipe.
    3) Install the stupid, unnecessary ground rods to match the prints and have the GEC as a pass-through.
    4) Terminate in the service disco as required

    Is the method described first compliant in your opinion? NEC 2014 applies.

    Yes, I know you will read this in the morning (you know who you are) and will talk to me about it at work.
    Attached Files
    "If you always do what is right to others you can't go wrong"

    The more I learn, the more I realize just how much I don't know.

    [COLOR="Red"]Always consult your local code enforcement department for direction. Read at your own risk[/COLOR]

    #2
    Originally posted by ivsenroute View Post
    ....Yes, I know you will read this in the morning (you know who you are) and will talk to me about it at work.
    What is the point of this post? I'm not interested in participating in a vendetta.
    If Billy Idol is on your playlist go reevaluate your life.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by ActionDave View Post
      What is the point of this post? I'm not interested in participating in a vendetta.
      The point is to get an answer as to whether or not something is code compliant as asked in the post. If this is an issue with you as a moderator then delete the thread.
      "If you always do what is right to others you can't go wrong"

      The more I learn, the more I realize just how much I don't know.

      [COLOR="Red"]Always consult your local code enforcement department for direction. Read at your own risk[/COLOR]

      Comment


        #4
        Did you look at the text I sent yesterday?

        Just a friendly discussion Dave. Looking for other opinions.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by chris kennedy View Post
          Did you look at the text I sent yesterday?

          Just a friendly discussion Dave. Looking for other opinions.
          Yes sir. I don't believe the graphic matches the 2014 code verbiage.
          "If you always do what is right to others you can't go wrong"

          The more I learn, the more I realize just how much I don't know.

          [COLOR="Red"]Always consult your local code enforcement department for direction. Read at your own risk[/COLOR]

          Comment


            #6
            Since you have #1/0 to all electrodes there isn't a problem with conductor sizing. Going by the drawing the GEC goes from the meter to the first rod and everything after that is a bonding/grounding jumper. Bonding jumpers do not require irreversible connections.

            Rob

            Moderator

            All responses based on the 2017 NEC unless otherwise noted

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by infinity View Post
              Since you have #1/0 to all electrodes there isn't a problem with conductor sizing. Going by the drawing the GEC goes from the meter to the first rod and everything after that is a bonding/grounding jumper. Bonding jumpers do not require irreversible connections.

              I am inclined to agree.
              Bob

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by ivsenroute View Post
                Here is the scenario:

                * Service located during footer pour, a 1/0 cu wire properly tied to rebar in footer before the pour.
                * Service location changed by owner/GC after footer pour complete.
                * 1/0 wire not long enough to get to new location of the main service disco outside.

                The plan is to do what is drawn in attached photo. I drew this with a mouse in Photoshop so sorry for the crappy job.

                The existing 1/0 from the rebar inside the footer will be taken to a ground rod where it will pass through without splicing to another ground rod where it will be terminated on a clamp. Each ground rod will have 2 listed/labeled clamps. Where the GEC from the footer goes through the ground rod, the second clamp will then be use to connect 1/0 to the exterior 2" cu water pipe. The 2nd rod which will be closer to the main disco will use one clamp to terminate the end of the GEC coming from the concrete encased electrode and the other clamp to attach new 1/0 that will then continue on to the service disco where it will terminate at the neutral bar lug.

                This is not the method I want to use, I don't believe this would be a code compliant installation since the GEC needs to be continuous and building steel is available.

                For those that ask why we are using ground rods at all, I can't answer that other than they are show on the prints, otherwise not required due to the CEE.

                My plan was to:

                1) Irreversible crimp to join the existing 1/0 and a piece that is long enough to get to the service disco.
                2) Add another irreversible crimp to add a pice of 1/0 to run over to the 2" water pipe.
                3) Install the stupid, unnecessary ground rods to match the prints and have the GEC as a pass-through.
                4) Terminate in the service disco as required

                Is the method described first compliant in your opinion? NEC 2014 applies.

                Yes, I know you will read this in the morning (you know who you are) and will talk to me about it at work.
                Take a look at image infinity posted. Only the conductor from the panel to the water pipe in that image is the "grounding electrode conductor" and must be unspliced (or can be spliced by irreversible means). the rest of the conductors are bonding jumpers.

                If your conductor to the CEE won't reach the service, you can land it on any point on the building steel (connection must be accessible) or on first five feet of entry of qualifying water pipe electrode, or on any other qualifying electrode, including your ground rod.

                As mentioned your 1/0 size to everything eliminates problems you would otherwise have if the rod only had the allowable #6 run to it.
                I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

                Comment

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