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    #31
    Originally posted by Malywr View Post
    Sorry for asking what is SABC


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Small appliance branch circuit.

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      #32
      Originally posted by peter d View Post
      Small appliance branch circuit.
      So code required 2 SABC can be connected more than 1 duplex on one circuit? I taught they are dedicated to counter top 2 circuits 2 duplex


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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        #33
        Originally posted by Malywr View Post
        So code required 2 SABC can be connected more than 1 duplex on one circuit? I taught they are dedicated to counter top 2 circuits 2 duplex
        You need a minimum of two SABC's there is no limit as to how many receptacles are on either circuit.
        Rob

        Moderator

        All responses based on the 2014 NEC unless otherwise noted

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by peter d View Post
          Under the 2017, individual 15A circuits for a dedicated appliance can be installed in areas covered by the SABC rules. Does not have to be just refrigeration equipment anymore.

          210.52( B)(1)

          Old exception:

          Exception No. 2: The receptacle outlet for refrigeration equipment shall be permitted to be supplied from an indi- vidual branch circuit rated 15 amperes or greater.


          New exception:

          Exception No. 2: In addition to the required receptacles specified by 210.52, a receptacle outlet to serve a specific appliance shall be permitted to be supplied from an individual branch circuit rated 15 amperes or greater.
          "Electricity is really just organized lightning." George Carlin


          Derek

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by jumper View Post
            Under the 2017, individual 15A circuits for a dedicated appliance can be installed in areas covered by the SABC rules. Does not have to be just refrigeration equipment anymore.

            210.52( B)(1)

            Old exception:

            Exception No. 2: The receptacle outlet for refrigeration equipment shall be permitted to be supplied from an indi- vidual branch circuit rated 15 amperes or greater.


            New exception:

            Exception No. 2: In addition to the required receptacles specified by 210.52, a receptacle outlet to serve a specific appliance shall be permitted to be supplied from an individual branch circuit rated 15 amperes or greater.
            Interesting, I didn't know that.

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by peter d View Post
              Interesting, I didn't know that.
              I like the change. So now I could add a 15A individual circuit to a counter top as long as I have the required 20A SABC receptacles there also.
              "Electricity is really just organized lightning." George Carlin


              Derek

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by jumper View Post
                Under the 2017, individual 15A circuits for a dedicated appliance can be installed in areas covered by the SABC rules. Does not have to be just refrigeration equipment anymore.

                210.52( B)(1)

                Old exception:

                Exception No. 2: The receptacle outlet for refrigeration equipment shall be permitted to be supplied from an indi- vidual branch circuit rated 15 amperes or greater.


                New exception:

                Exception No. 2: In addition to the required receptacles specified by 210.52, a receptacle outlet to serve a specific appliance shall be permitted to be supplied from an individual branch circuit rated 15 amperes or greater.
                I wasn't aware of this change either.

                I still question that a free standing microwave on a counter top would count as a an appliance in a dedicated location. If you build cabinets to make the microwave be in a dedicated location then I think you could run the 15 amp circuit to it - and possibly can even say that microwave receptacle can't be on any SABC for that installation.

                If it is just sitting on open counter, maybe the next occupant thinks the microwave should go in a different location - can't necessarily say it is dedicated IMO.
                I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by kwired View Post
                  I wasn't aware of this change either.

                  I still question that a free standing microwave on a counter top would count as a an appliance in a dedicated location. If you build cabinets to make the microwave be in a dedicated location then I think you could run the 15 amp circuit to it - and possibly can even say that microwave receptacle can't be on any SABC for that installation.

                  If it is just sitting on open counter, maybe the next occupant thinks the microwave should go in a different location - can't necessarily say it is dedicated IMO.
                  I agree. All receptacles on the counter need to be 20 amp, no exception.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by peter d View Post
                    I agree. All receptacles on the counter need to be 20 amp, no exception.
                    And on a SABC. If you still want that counter top microwave on an individual circuit that is fine - it becomes one additional SABC.
                    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by peter d View Post
                      I agree. All receptacles on the counter need to be 20 amp, no exception.
                      Originally posted by kwired View Post
                      And on a SABC. If you still want that counter top microwave on an individual circuit that is fine - it becomes one additional SABC.
                      What part of the wording was unclear?

                      All GP wall recs in the kitchen had to be on a SABC, unless it was for refrigeration which could be a 15A circuit now the exception allows more than just that equipment.

                      Rec in cabinets are not covered by 210.52 SABC rules, never were.
                      "Electricity is really just organized lightning." George Carlin


                      Derek

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by jumper View Post
                        What part of the wording was unclear?

                        All GP wall recs in the kitchen had to be on a SABC, unless it was for refrigeration which could be a 15A circuit now the exception allows more than just that equipment.

                        Rec in cabinets are not covered by 210.52 SABC rules, never were.
                        Before and after the change all 210.52(A) and(C) outlets plus outlets for refrigeration had to be on SABC. Only thing this has clarified is that non 210.52(A) or (C) outlets can be on a 15 amp circuit. An outlet serving the counter with a microwave plugged into is is still a 210.52(C) outlet and must be on a 20 amp SABC.

                        How can one say an outlet no higher than 20" over the counter and not specifically separated from the general counter area in an effort to make a dedicated space for a specific appliance is actually a dedicated appliance receptacle? Next home occupant may think the microwave is better at a different location on the counter.
                        I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by kwired View Post
                          Before and after the change all 210.52(A) and(C) outlets plus outlets for refrigeration had to be on SABC. Only thing this has clarified is that non 210.52(A) or (C) outlets can be on a 15 amp circuit. An outlet serving the counter with a microwave plugged into is is still a 210.52(C) outlet and must be on a 20 amp SABC.

                          How can one say an outlet no higher than 20" over the counter and not specifically separated from the general counter area in an effort to make a dedicated space for a specific appliance is actually a dedicated appliance receptacle? Next home occupant may think the microwave is better at a different location on the counter.
                          That outlet of the individual 15A circuit does not serve the countertop, it cannot be used as a substitute for a requirement in 210.52. It serves a dedicated piece of equipment that just happens to be located on the countertop.

                          Why are you going all “ what if”?
                          "Electricity is really just organized lightning." George Carlin


                          Derek

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by kwired View Post
                            Before and after the change all 210.52(A) and(C) outlets plus outlets for refrigeration had to be on SABC. Only thing this has clarified is that non 210.52(A) or (C) outlets can be on a 15 amp circuit. An outlet serving the counter with a microwave plugged into is is still a 210.52(C) outlet and must be on a 20 amp SABC.
                            I agree, the plugin micro can easily be moved just like any other appliance used on the countertop.
                            Rob

                            Moderator

                            All responses based on the 2014 NEC unless otherwise noted

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by infinity View Post
                              I agree, the plugin micro can easily be moved just like any other appliance used on the countertop.
                              I can push my fridge around and plug it into a wall SABC instead of the 15A individual circuit, so if I do-what happens to that 15A circuit?
                              "Electricity is really just organized lightning." George Carlin


                              Derek

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by jumper View Post
                                That outlet of the individual 15A circuit does not serve the countertop, it cannot be used as a substitute for a requirement in 210.52. It serves a dedicated piece of equipment that just happens to be located on the countertop.

                                Why are you going all “ what if”?
                                I generally don't go with "what if" but this one I don't see as being a dedicated receptacle if there isn't some arrangement to make a dedicated space for said appliance. Open counter is fair game for any counter type appliance - and that is a big factor in creating the need for SABC's.

                                Otherwise we could run several outlets on 15 amp receptacles and call them dedicated to a toaster, can opener, air fryer, etc. Of what I just mentioned, only the can opener has a significantly different load characteristics than a microwave.
                                I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

                                Comment

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