Serving dining room outlets per NEC

[shortcircuit1]

Another one from NEC that i dont understand the intent behind this:

(B) Small Appliances.
(1) Receptacle Outlets Served. In the kitchen, pantry,
breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling
unit, the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch cir-cuits
required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all wall and floor
receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A), all countertop out-lets
covered by 210.52(C), and receptacle outlets for refrig-eration
equipment.

If you have just a table with 2 chairs would you consider that as a dining room or dining area?If so you will be adding maybe 1-2 outlets in there. Per NEC these have(shall) to be on SABC. o they really have to be on SABC? Whats the intent behind this?

 

[Strathead]

Another one from NEC that i dont understand the intent behind this:

(B) Small Appliances.
(1) Receptacle Outlets Served. In the kitchen, pantry,
breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling
unit, the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch cir-cuits
required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all wall and floor
receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A), all countertop out-lets
covered by 210.52(C), and receptacle outlets for refrig-eration
equipment.

If you have just a table with 2 chairs would you consider that as a dining room or dining area?If so you will be adding maybe 1-2 outlets in there. Per NEC these have(shall) to be on SABC. o they really have to be on SABC? Whats the intent behind this?

I believe the theory behind this is that you are likely to plug warmers, crock pots, toasters, fondue pots and other appliance loads in the dining room.

 

[kwired]

I believe the theory behind this is that you are likely to plug warmers, crock pots, toasters, fondue pots and other appliance loads in the dining room.

My thoughts as well.

NEC only requires 2 SABC's - unless you had more than one kitchen. If you run a separate circuit to the dining room it will be an additional SABC, must be a 20 amp circuit and is another 1500VA for load calculations, it can't supply any other outlets not permitted on SABC's.

 

[480sparky]

NEC only requires 2 SABC's - unless you had more than one kitchen. If you run a separate circuit to the dining room it will be an additional SABC, must be a 20 amp circuit and is another 1500VA for load calculations, it can't supply any other outlets not permitted on SABC's.

That's my typical MO. Pull a 3rd SABC for the dining room and call it a day. If it's a small apartment then I usually don't, but houses get done this way.

 

[shortcircuit1]

I believe the theory behind this is that you are likely to plug warmers, crock pots, toasters, fondue pots and other appliance loads in the dining room.

If thats the case lets say if you have a microwave and a small 4 slice toaster oven plugged into same SABC then it will be tripping the breaker. Isn't it?

 

[kwired]

If thats the case lets say if you have a microwave and a small 4 slice toaster oven plugged into same SABC then it will be tripping the breaker. Isn't it?

Nobody said it was a perfect rule that fits all situations, but they have at some time determined there is often more load in the kitchen, dining, pantry.... and we need to give those areas a little special attention in comparison to other general use areas. Code after all does want a minimum of 2 SABC's and there have been cases where that is almost impractical for very small kitchen spaces. But you can put in hundreds of SABC's if you wanted to.

 

[480sparky]

If thats the case lets say if you have a microwave and a small 4 slice toaster oven plugged into same SABC then it will be tripping the breaker. Isn't it?

The same thing can happen if you have a countertop micro and a toaster sitting on the counter, both plugged into the same duplex.

 

[shortcircuit1]

The same thing can happen if you have a countertop micro and a toaster sitting on the counter, both plugged into the same duplex.

yes indeed. I was curious as to see NEC's point of view. I have done some buildings with dining room outlets on general purpose circuits and never had any issues with the inspector.

 

[480sparky]

yes indeed. I was curious as to see NEC's point of view. ...

Unless an appliance requires a dedicated circuit, it's not an NEC issue.

... I have done some buildings with dining room outlets on general purpose circuits and never had any issues with the inspector.

They probably either don't know the Dining Room requirement, or just never noticed you doing this.

 

[shortcircuit1]

Unless an appliance requires a dedicated circuit, it's not an NEC issue.



They probably either don't know the Dining Room requirement, or just never noticed you doing this.

Well for anything NEC says there's a reason behind it like someone pointed out earlier if they add any future equipment. They could have said to add it to general purpose circuit but they specifically say SABC which makes me think they might have had some reasoning behind it. They dont just say it cause they feel like it

 

[480sparky]

Well for anything NEC says there's a reason behind it like someone pointed out earlier if they add any future equipment. They could have said to add it to general purpose circuit but they specifically say SABC which makes me think they might have had some reasoning behind it. They dont just say it cause they feel like it

The NEC doesn't state the reasoning behind any of it rules. If you're interested into why, research back-issues of the Report on Proposals. Proposals is where the logic and reasoning is stated. Fact is, someone proposing a change or addition needs to include such information. Lacking it, the proposal will likely be passed over.

 

[Adamjamma]

I know a guy who had his circuits all labelled up, including one that said Dining Room...
Inspectors comments on the box was you only messed up on one thing there.. need a different breaker on the dining room...

My buddy luckily had a spare 20 amp breaker... actually had it sitting in the spares slot... inspector watched him switch the fifteen for the twenty, while sipping on a cup of coffee, smiled and said ok, passed.. thanks...

My buddy then looked at me and told me he always buys the inspectors coffee and donuts and always does that so he can get hit on something and change it for them, just so they have something to say they made him change, but he was nice about it...

My luck would be the guy would decide he needed to be rescheduled and at extra cost..or decide to find a dozen other things wrong with it..lol...