Rough in for single family dwelling
- Thread starter CONDUIT
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al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
The NEC is silent about this.
Who has the greatest influence, of those associated with the wiring installation? Ask them what they require.
Who has the greatest influence, of those associated with the wiring installation? Ask them what they require.
Hmmm, that is a good one.
On the large projects, they are saying you can rough after dry-in, whatever that means. Which means a lot of different things to different people.
I use to rough wearing flood boots so times have changed...
ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
i used to wait until all walls and at least roof exterior sheeting was on. I declined to rough in a two story hill top home that had neither. Windows didn’t enter in. Security was not a problem back then. That and if the insulation cracked or broke on the NM cable, it was too cold.
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
Dry in is usually paper and roof, but I did it like you, as soon as it was framed we would start, but then the weather is different here than in other parts of the country.
A reasonably dry roof is enough for me, but I usually wait until the tin-knockers and turd-herders are done with their roughs so they don't screw my work up. If the building isn't closed in, I make it a point to let the owner / builder know that once I install something, it's theirs and not mine.
The last hospital I did, they would not let me pull the wire in until they considered it dry. EMT installation. This is building wire, THHN/THWN. The general was clueless on what that meant and he was one of those 3 billion dollars per year Generals.
I said, so you have no problem with the feeder wire that's currently sitting outside in the rain, and this same wire that has the same insulation as you are trying to protect inside, right now is going underground in a wet location?
Yes, the underground wiring is fine, but don't pull the building wire.
It's like, I am in the twilight zone.
I said, so you have no problem with the feeder wire that's currently sitting outside in the rain, and this same wire that has the same insulation as you are trying to protect inside, right now is going underground in a wet location?
Yes, the underground wiring is fine, but don't pull the building wire.
It's like, I am in the twilight zone.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Agreed, plus wiring is much more flexible than pipe and duct, thus more easily run last.
hbiss
EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
- Location
- Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
- Occupation
- EC
I'm with 480. With residential you don't want your NM cable and boxes to get wet as it's not listed for wet or damp locations. Water can get wicked up into the cable ends. So the minimum would be a completed roof. I also believe that the protocol should be that the electrical goes in after the HVAC and plumbing. It's much easier to route our wiring around things than it is for duct work and piping.
-Hal
-Hal
texie
Senior Member
- Location
- Fort Collins, Colorado
- Occupation
- Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
This is an area where one has to be careful as many AHJs have specific requirements for what they consider alowable for rough-in. Some require windows and doors-the whole 9 yards and are real sticklers on this.
I personally think it is nonsense to worry about for NM, pipe and wire etc. as a little rain or snow is harmless. I seem to recall a UL white paper on this that agreed.
I personally think it is nonsense to worry about for NM, pipe and wire etc. as a little rain or snow is harmless. I seem to recall a UL white paper on this that agreed.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I would kill my builders if they called me in after the tin knockers. If I have an open crawl space I do not want to deal with all the plumbing and HVAC ducts to rough in. We square up our wires so we are never in their way and it makes my job 100% easier. We find out where the cold air return is and avoid that. If there is a second floor then I don't care if the hvac system is in but I do not want it in the crawl area.
I'm with you, Dennis.
All electrical equipment is affected in a negative way if it should happen to get wet during job construction,regardless of it's rating.
NM does not react well to being wet in the first place.
Even boxes and raceways will end up having water in them, and possible rust trails (that they shouldn't have) if they are roughed in indoors in emt and thhn/thwn on a jobsite that is not protected from the elements.
One would expect outdoor underground raceways and conductors to be exposed to water, but, not so much on the indoor application, so that to me is a poor comparison.
Bad weather happens on a job site, that's a given.
But,
I don't know of anyone who wouldn't rather their installation stay dry as much as possible throughout.
With that being said, as long as others are not affecting my completion date, or covering me up, I'd be on the side of the job super that wants the place in the dry before me ever even getting started.
JAP>
NM does not react well to being wet in the first place.
Even boxes and raceways will end up having water in them, and possible rust trails (that they shouldn't have) if they are roughed in indoors in emt and thhn/thwn on a jobsite that is not protected from the elements.
One would expect outdoor underground raceways and conductors to be exposed to water, but, not so much on the indoor application, so that to me is a poor comparison.
Bad weather happens on a job site, that's a given.
But,
I don't know of anyone who wouldn't rather their installation stay dry as much as possible throughout.
With that being said, as long as others are not affecting my completion date, or covering me up, I'd be on the side of the job super that wants the place in the dry before me ever even getting started.
JAP>
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
We also wait until the roof is on and at least the exterior sheathing. Windows are not necessary for me....
The whole thing is a joke as I have seen so many electricians driving around with nm in the back of their pickups getting rained on anyway. I certainly wouldn't want my recessed cans to be rained on.
Crawlspaces are a rarity in my area. Maybe 1 in 500 homes.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Slabs are one thing but even basements I would not want the duct work in before I got there. What a hassle to work around that stuff.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Imagine how the HVAC guys feel about having to work around our "stuff." It's a lot easier to route wire around duct than duct around wire.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Larry this is not true. I have work around many hvac guys and they have no trouble with us because we square off our wires. There may be an occasional issue that usually is easily rectified. I had plumbers argue with me about them going first and when I went first they said they had no problems with the way we wired it. Never got in their way.
When you are in a crawl space and you have 20-30 home runs that have to run across the entire crawl area, trust me, you don't want ducts in the way
Ducts in a basement are a non-issue. I run all the HR's up and over, and all you'll see in the basement is what's above the panel. Any dedicated circuits for the basement (furnace, water heater, laundry, sump etc) are sleeved in EMT. Anything else in the basement (lights, GP receps etc) is EMT as well.
Tin benders here don't give a rodent's rectum about other trades. They're more than happy to cut wires... and even pex.... that's in their way.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I prefer to not drill the joists so I run wires parallel to where the ducts are running below the joist and then the duct work hides it all. A lot easier. I have seen duct work so bad that we couldn't even get up an exterior wall.
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