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250.118 - using emt conduit as a ground

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    #76
    Originally posted by Strathead View Post
    Just because an inspector overtly threatening to fail someone for following code is not in my wheelhouse of experience and would likely result in disciplinary action against the inspector. That's all.
    You said this:

    I was trying to convey that I would make it more difficult for you, if you chose not to install a green ground wire in your conduits

    You do know do know the mystery inspector he was referring to was you, right?

    This would get you some disciplinary action on your first day of the job if you came on my jobsite trying to enforce a non-existent rule.

    JAP>

    Comment


      #77
      Originally posted by MAC702 View Post
      It case it was forgotten/missed, I was quoting a member in this thread on what he would do as an inspector.

      Thought it should be noted in context, and he is NOT an inspector.
      I hate not being able to edit my posts.

      I typo'd and it should say: "Though it should be noted in context."

      It changed the meaning. Apologies.

      Comment


        #78
        To my knowledge there is nothing in the code that states EMT has to be supplemented by a wire type EGC.


        JAP>

        Comment


          #79
          Originally posted by MAC702 View Post
          I hate not being able to edit my posts.

          I typo'd and it should say: "Though it should be noted in context."

          It changed the meaning. Apologies.
          That's ok, the other day I wrote Eaton and it posted as Easton, when a baseball bat had nothing to do with the subject.


          JAP>

          Comment


            #80
            Originally posted by jap View Post
            You said this:

            I was trying to convey that I would make it more difficult for you, if you chose not to install a green ground wire in your conduits

            You do know do know the mystery inspector he was referring to was you, right?

            This would get you some disciplinary action on your first day of the job if you came on my jobsite trying to enforce a non-existent rule.

            JAP>
            Just for the record I am done.


            I know what I don't know, and I know where to go to find it!

            Comment


              #81
              emt as ground

              Originally posted by kwired View Post
              Seen many from the time period you mentioned with poorly supported raceway contributing to broken fittings resulting in loss of EGC, also seen loose set screws or compression nuts, but that is all workmanship issues more than anything IMO. Have seen poorly made up EGC's in cable wiring methods as well - open continuity is still open continuity.

              I do a lot of grain storage bins and handling equipment. Generally all steel structures and equipment. I do run EGC's in flexible conduits or in any non metallic raceways (which is usually just underground raceways in these applications) but see running any wire EGC in most of said systems as pointless, the equipment/structures are very effective fault return path, and usually more effective than my raceways, so if a fitting didn't get tightened it doesn't really matter much from equipment grounding perspective.
              thanks for the comments as usual.

              Comment


                #82
                Originally posted by jap View Post
                Inspectors? or Engineers?

                How can an inspector require a wire type EGC if one is not spec'd on a project?

                JAP>
                How? They simply say that they want an EGC installed, but you knew the answer to that before you asked, I'm sure.
                I can build anything you want if you draw a picture of it on the back of a big enough check.

                There's no substitute for hard work....but that doesn't mean I'm going to give up trying to find one.

                John Childress
                Electrical Inspector
                IAEI / CEI / C10
                Certified Electrical Inspector

                Comment


                  #83
                  Originally posted by jap View Post
                  To my knowledge there is nothing in the code that states EMT has to be supplemented by a wire type EGC.


                  JAP>
                  article 517
                  I can build anything you want if you draw a picture of it on the back of a big enough check.

                  There's no substitute for hard work....but that doesn't mean I'm going to give up trying to find one.

                  John Childress
                  Electrical Inspector
                  IAEI / CEI / C10
                  Certified Electrical Inspector

                  Comment


                    #84
                    Originally posted by cowboyjwc View Post
                    How? They simply say that they want an EGC installed, but you knew the answer to that before you asked, I'm sure.
                    And I guess we could simply say, one is not required since we ran EMT, correct?

                    JAP>

                    Comment


                      #85
                      Originally posted by cowboyjwc View Post
                      article 517
                      smarty pants

                      There is no general rule requiring EMT to contain an EGC. There are specific conditions where it is required.

                      If you want to be picky 517 doesn't use the term supplement either, it just says something to the effect that the wiring method must be one that qualifies as an EGC plus you must also run an insulated EGC within that wiring method. It also only applies to branch circuits supplying patient care areas, and not necessarily everything in the health care facility.
                      I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

                      Comment


                        #86
                        I wonder what this thread would sound like under this scenario;

                        We never used EMT, or rigid conduit to clear a fault since Edison played with the first light bulb. We ALWAYS pulled a separate wire to clear a fault.
                        Now, someone is proposing in the current NEC we use the raceways to clear a fault to save resources.
                        You would NEVER get this in the codebook. And I mean, NEVER.

                        It's just the way humans think!

                        Comment


                          #87
                          Originally posted by Gary11734 View Post
                          I wonder what this thread would sound like under this scenario;

                          We never used EMT, or rigid conduit to clear a fault since Edison played with the first light bulb. We ALWAYS pulled a separate wire to clear a fault.
                          Now, someone is proposing in the current NEC we use the raceways to clear a fault to save resources.
                          You would NEVER get this in the codebook. And I mean, NEVER.

                          It's just the way humans think!
                          One problem with that is we went for some time without worrying about fault clearing at all, then went to only certain instances needed equipment grounding, and finally 1955-1960 finally started to go with EGC's required for pretty much everything, and even that took some time to catch on in some places.
                          I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

                          Comment


                            #88
                            Originally posted by Gary11734 View Post
                            I wonder what this thread would sound like under this scenario;

                            We never used EMT, or rigid conduit to clear a fault since Edison played with the first light bulb. We ALWAYS pulled a separate wire to clear a fault.
                            Now, someone is proposing in the current NEC we use the raceways to clear a fault to save resources.
                            You would NEVER get this in the codebook. And I mean, NEVER.

                            It's just the way humans think!
                            I'm not sure about that.

                            I'll use an example that came up earlier in this thread.

                            "We never used NM and plastic boxes for commercial installations. We always ran it in conduit or MC cable no matter what. Now someone is proposing in the current NEC that we can use NM and plastic boxes to save resources". How dare they!!! and yes, it did get in the code book, and humans do utilize the option.

                            It's just the way humans are, like it or not.

                            JAP>

                            Comment


                              #89
                              Originally posted by jap View Post
                              I'm not sure about that.

                              I'll use an example that came up earlier in this thread.

                              "We never used NM and plastic boxes for commercial installations. We always ran it in conduit or MC cable no matter what. Now someone is proposing in the current NEC that we can use NM and plastic boxes to save resources". How dare they!!! and yes, it did get in the code book, and humans do utilize the option.

                              It's just the way humans are, like it or not.

                              JAP>

                              Plastic boxes/wire, and grounding are comparing apples and oranges...

                              Grounding is the Holy Grail of the NEC. No comparison to plastic boxes. Plastic boxes were utilize because it's cheaper. Nobody gave a hoot about saving resources when plastic came out. They wanted to save money. And, you can save money by not pulling in a ground wire in conduit. It doesn't matter...

                              As I said, NO WAY would this ever get into the code. NEVER! I guarantee the code will finally get rid of the conduit as an effective means to clear a fault... It's just a matter of time...

                              Comment


                                #90
                                Originally posted by kwired View Post
                                One problem with that is we went for some time without worrying about fault clearing at all, then went to only certain instances needed equipment grounding, and finally 1955-1960 finally started to go with EGC's required for pretty much everything, and even that took some time to catch on in some places.
                                What codebook year did we not worry or care about if we cleared a fault?

                                Comment

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