Separate closet for elevator disconnects?

[shortcircuit1]

Hello,

I have had this question for a long time. I have researched a lot on this subject but i am still confused about elevator disconnect locations.

As per NEC 620.37(NEC 2011) only such electrical wiring used directly in connection with the elevator shall be permitted inside the hoistway,machine rooms,control rooms,machinery spaces and control spaces.

Now if you have a disconnect for elevator motor and a disconnect for cab lights, can you put them in a near by electrical closet in combination with other equipment like panelboards? I guess from the code above i cant. So in that case you would be needing a small closet maybe about 30"w X 12"d closet to house those disconnects? I asked the elevator rep and he was mentioning it is okay to combine them with other equipment but i am not 100% sure on this after reading the code.

Second question is now a days with MRL elevators atleast for Schindler and KONE elevators we have a fused disconnect switch in the elev.control room or closet and then a non fused disconnect switch in the hoistway. I am not sure why you would be needing two disconnects?Can you just have one fusible disconnect at the top of the hoistway and call it a day which would eliminate the need of having a separate closet?

 

[shortcircuit1]

Bump!Any one?

 

[ChandlerBing]

Elevator Disconnects

Elevator Disconnects

I am an estimator for a commercial electrical contractor and have only seen these items in elev. machine room. However, as an estimator we assume a lot of things and the field will do another to save on cost. If it were me I would follow 620.37 and assume the location to be in the elev. machine room.

 

[shortcircuit1]

I am an estimator for a commercial electrical contractor and have only seen these items in elev. machine room. However, as an estimator we assume a lot of things and the field will do another to save on cost. If it were me I would follow 620.37 and assume the location to be in the elev. machine room.

For MRL elevators motor sits on top of the hoistway. So yeah for hydraulic elevators we already have a elevator machine room which will house all the disconnects but in MRL case is where the question comes in

 

[Kansas Mountain]

What kind of elevator are you designing around and how many floors of travel? If you're dealing with an MRL, I've never had an issue having other non-elevator systems in the disconnect room/closet, unless it is a manufacturer specific requirement. If you do not have an MRL elevator, you're correct and should not have any non-elevator related equipment in the same room. Typically, I do panel in a separate room, feeding fused disconnects in equipment room, with non-fused disconnects inside the elevator shaft. Link below has photos though of the last non-MRL machine room I was around if it's of any use to you.


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/77brxkmn0yx4xze/AAAHOeSOnf2NVRYxwi5WHO19a?dl=0

 

[ChandlerBing]

Elevator Disconnects

Elevator Disconnects

My mistake. I think 620.53 in 2017 NEC is what I would reference for this instance.

 

[shortcircuit1]

What kind of elevator are you designing around and how many floors of travel? If you're dealing with an MRL, I've never had an issue having other non-elevator systems in the disconnect room/closet, unless it is a manufacturer specific requirement. If you do not have an MRL elevator, you're correct and should not have any non-elevator related equipment in the same room. Typically, I do panel in a separate room, feeding fused disconnects in equipment room, with non-fused disconnects inside the elevator shaft. Link below has photos though of the last non-MRL machine room I was around if it's of any use to you.


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/77brxkmn0yx4xze/AAAHOeSOnf2NVRYxwi5WHO19a?dl=0

Thanks but i am dealing with an Otis and Schindler elevator. Floors of travel are 4-5. But as per NEC 620.37(A)

(A) Uses Permitted. Only such electrical wiring, raceways,and cables used directly in connection with the elevator
or dumbwaiter, including wiring for signals, for
communication with the car, for lighting, heating, air conditioning,
and ventilating the elevator car, for fire detecting
systems, for pit sump pumps, and for heating, lighting, and
ventilating the hoistway, shall be permitted inside the hoistway,
machine rooms, control rooms, machinery spaces, and
control spaces.

which implies that you cant put anything else in a room which house elevator disconnects or combine with other distribution equipment that doesnt belong to elevator.

 

[Kansas Mountain]

which implies that you cant put anything else in a room which house elevator disconnects or combine with other distribution equipment that doesnt belong to elevator.

I may just be getting lucky with our elevator inspector, but I haven't had an issue, because we consider the pit of an MRL to be the "machine room". A disconnect for an elevator, IMO, is just a disconnecting means. Elevators have controllers in them, so the disconnect does not double as a controller in this scenario, which means that 620.37 doesn't apply if you ask me.

Side note, I HAVE been nailed for not having machine room lighting levels in the pit of an MRL elevator hoistway.

 

[David64]

Hello,

I have had this question for a long time. I have researched a lot on this subject but i am still confused about elevator disconnect locations.

As per NEC 620.37(NEC 2011) only such electrical wiring used directly in connection with the elevator shall be permitted inside the hoistway,machine rooms,control rooms,machinery spaces and control spaces.

Now if you have a disconnect for elevator motor and a disconnect for cab lights, can you put them in a near by electrical closet in combination with other equipment like panelboards? I guess from the code above i cant. So in that case you would be needing a small closet maybe about 30"w X 12"d closet to house those disconnects? I asked the elevator rep and he was mentioning it is okay to combine them with other equipment but i am not 100% sure on this after reading the code.

Second question is now a days with MRL elevators atleast for Schindler and KONE elevators we have a fused disconnect switch in the elev.control room or closet and then a non fused disconnect switch in the hoistway. I am not sure why you would be needing two disconnects?Can you just have one fusible disconnect at the top of the hoistway and call it a day which would eliminate the need of having a separate closet?

Disconnect switches for elevator motor and cab lights next to foreign-system panelboards may be impacted if said panelboard were to have an arc event; and while staff personnel may have access to those panelboards, they shouldn't have access to elevator disconnect switches. It would make sense for a lockable separate closet strictly for the elevator disconnects, and accessible by qualified persons only. It is my understanding that no foreign systems are allowed in the same space as the elevator equipment, and also are not allowed to pass through said space. ASME A17.1-2013 Safety Code for Elevators and Escalators is pretty straight forward on what is and what is not allowed. Of course this also depends on the local AHJ. For example, in 1984 the local AHJ permitted us to route a foreign system RMC through an elevator control room but only because it was a continuous length (width of control room was 7-ft); this likely is no longer permitted.

Article 430 requires motors to have a lockable disconnect within sight. Per 2017 NEC Article 620.51(C)(1), it is my understanding that in the case of an MRL the disconnect switch that is "readily accessible to qualified persons" is likely not in line of sight of the motor controller located at top of hoistway. Therefore, a second disconnect switch is required to meet the line of sight requirement. 2011 NEC 620.51(C)(1) similarly explains the requirement of two disconnect switches for the same reason. There's a level of comfort knowing that the disconnect switch is in the OPEN position while working on a 30HP 480V 3PH elevator motor . . .