GFCI Receptacle for garbage disposal

[david]

The new wording in 210.8 NEC 2018 states that when determining distance for GFCI's it is "would follow without ... passing through a door. My first thought is that if the receptacle has to pass through a door, then a GFCI isn't required on the other side of the door. But I think I have read here where it is believed to be required. Can we discuss the reasoning? I can see where one might state, a cabinet door isn't a "door" in this case, for example.

For the purposes of this section, when determining distance
from receptacles the distance shall be measured as the shortest
path the cord of an appliance connected to the receptacle
would follow without piercing a floor, wall, ceiling, or fixed
barrier, or passing through a door, doorway, or window.

680.22
(4) GFCI Protection. All 15- and 20-ampere, single-phase, 125-volt receptacles located within 6.0 m (20 ft) of the inside walls of a pool shall be protected by a ground-fault circuit interrupter.

(5) Measurements. In determining the dimensions in this section addressing receptacle spacings, the distance to be measured shall be the shortest path the supply cord of an appliance connected to the receptacle would follow without piercing a floor, wall, ceiling, doorway with hinged or sliding door, window opening, or other effective permanent barrier.

If there was a rec in a cabinet say 7 ft from a pool i would require it to have ground fault protection

[lordofthisworld]

The new wording in 210.8 NEC 2018 states that when determining distance for GFCI's it is "would follow without ... passing through a door. My first thought is that if the receptacle has to pass through a door, then a GFCI isn't required on the other side of the door. But I think I have read here where it is believed to be required. Can we discuss the reasoning? I can see where one might state, a cabinet door isn't a "door" in this case, for example.

Is the disposal Recept within 6’ of the edge of the sink?

[kwired]

For the purposes of this section, when determining distance
from receptacles the distance shall be measured as the shortest
path the cord of an appliance connected to the receptacle
would follow without piercing a floor, wall, ceiling, or fixed
barrier, or passing through a door, doorway, or window.

680.22
(4) GFCI Protection. All 15- and 20-ampere, single-phase, 125-volt receptacles located within 6.0 m (20 ft) of the inside walls of a pool shall be protected by a ground-fault circuit interrupter.

(5) Measurements. In determining the dimensions in this section addressing receptacle spacings, the distance to be measured shall be the shortest path the supply cord of an appliance connected to the receptacle would follow without piercing a floor, wall, ceiling, doorway with hinged or sliding door, window opening, or other effective permanent barrier.

If there was a rec in a cabinet say 7 ft from a pool i would require it to have ground fault protection

What if it is on other side of a wall, effectively in another "room" than what the pool is in? Certainly wouldn't hurt to GFCI protect it in most cases, but may not be all that necessary.

Problem with making rules is all the "what if's" that didn't come up initially when making the rule.

Is the disposal Recept within 6’ of the edge of the sink?

When it comes to a direct line regardless of obstacles, usually they are, the topic of discussion is how to measure that distance when there is obstacles, openings, etc.

[LarryFine]

Problem with making rules is all the "what if's" that didn't come up initially when making the rule.

That's what code compliance is all about: making the general fit the specific.

[don_resqcapt19]

"Readily Accessible" currently prohibits "to climb over or under, to remove obstacles"
See first paragraph of 210.8 and 210.12

That has nothing to do with the requirement that the receptacle have GFCI protection. It just says you can't use a GFCI receptacle in that location to provide the required protection.

[ramsy]

That has nothing to do with the requirement that the receptacle have GFCI protection. It just says you can't use a GFCI receptacle in that location to provide the required protection.

Master's won't let monkeys use 2-pole GCFI's for MWBC's under sinks, but they might use 1-pole breaker for both dishwasher / disposer, and cap off extra leg in box.

[romex jockey]

Given all the recent torriod nec inclusions, I'm waiting for the decending ma (main, submains, ocpd's) model to debut here

~RJ~

[sameguy]

So glad I'm retired.

[david]

What if it is on other side of a wall, effectively in another "room" than what the pool is in? Certainly wouldn't hurt to GFCI protect it in most cases, but may not be all that necessary.

Problem with making rules is all the "what if's" that didn't come up initially when making the rule.

When it comes to a direct line regardless of obstacles, usually they are, the topic of discussion is how to measure that distance when there is obstacles, openings, etc.

Doorway seems to have an understood meaning in the building trades the difference in the two sections

680 specifies a doorway with a hinged or sliding door (barrier) to separate the swimming pool area from the room in your post

My point is most would require, if a rec was in a cabinet in the swimming pool area to have GFCI protection. The wording is the same in both sections. As written the cabinet door does not create a separation that would be considered a barrier.

I agree if the code intends to exempt the rec in a cabinet it needs to be clear

[kwired]

Doorway seems to have an understood meaning in the building trades the difference in the two sections

680 specifies a doorway with a hinged or sliding door (barrier) to separate the swimming pool area from the room in your post

My point is most would require, if a rec was in a cabinet in the swimming pool area to have GFCI protection. The wording is the same in both sections. As written the cabinet door does not create a separation that would be considered a barrier.

I agree if the code intends to exempt the rec in a cabinet it needs to be clear

I did not check out what is in 680 but as far as 210.8 goes, 2017 they added wording that I thought was clear the cabinet door is such a barrier. Now it is mentioned that will go away again. Must have been a failed attempt at whatever they were trying to get out of the first time around?

[kwired]

Master's won't let monkeys use 2-pole GCFI's for MWBC's under sinks, but they might use 1-pole breaker for both dishwasher / disposer, and cap off extra leg in box.

Why? It is either GFCI protected or it is not, why does it matter if it is single pole, two pole or even three pole?

[ramsy]

Why? It is either GFCI protected or it is not, why does it matter if it is single pole, two pole or even three pole?

Maybe it's just me. Never found one in resi fuse box in last 10 years.
How many 2-pole resets have you installed, and where, much less 3-pole?

[romex jockey]

Doorway seems to have an understood meaning in the building trades the difference in the two sections

680 specifies a doorway with a hinged or sliding door (barrier) to separate the swimming pool area from the room in your post

My point is most would require, if a rec was in a cabinet in the swimming pool area to have GFCI protection. The wording is the same in both sections. As written the cabinet door does not create a separation that would be considered a barrier.

I agree if the code intends to exempt the rec in a cabinet it needs to be clear

Didn't the '17 focus on accessibility of gfci's??? ~RJ~

[sameguy]

Maybe it's just me. Never found one in resi fuse box in last 10 years.
How many 2-pole resets have you installed, and where, much less 3-pole?

3pole, any service 1.2kA and up iirc.

[david]

Didn't the '17 focus on accessibility of gfci's??? ~RJ~

Not sure how the test/ reset being accessible effects anything as far as GFCI protection of a Rec. goes.

"Readily Accessible" currently prohibits "to climb over or under, to remove obstacles"
See first paragraph of 210.8 and 210.12

That has nothing to do with the requirement that the receptacle have GFCI protection. It just says you can't use a GFCI receptacle in that location to provide the required protection.