Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

GFCI Receptacle for garbage disposal

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #16
    Originally posted by Strathead View Post
    The new wording in 210.8 NEC 2018 states that when determining distance for GFCI's it is "would follow without ... passing through a door. My first thought is that if the receptacle has to pass through a door, then a GFCI isn't required on the other side of the door. But I think I have read here where it is believed to be required. Can we discuss the reasoning? I can see where one might state, a cabinet door isn't a "door" in this case, for example.
    For the purposes of this section, when determining distance
    from receptacles the distance shall be measured as the shortest
    path the cord of an appliance connected to the receptacle
    would follow without piercing a floor, wall, ceiling, or fixed
    barrier, or passing through a door, doorway, or window.

    680.22
    (4) GFCI Protection. All 15- and 20-ampere, single-phase, 125-volt receptacles located within 6.0 m (20 ft) of the inside walls of a pool shall be protected by a ground-fault circuit interrupter.

    (5) Measurements. In determining the dimensions in this section addressing receptacle spacings, the distance to be measured shall be the shortest path the supply cord of an appliance connected to the receptacle would follow without piercing a floor, wall, ceiling, doorway with hinged or sliding door, window opening, or other effective permanent barrier.

    If there was a rec in a cabinet say 7 ft from a pool i would require it to have ground fault protection

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by Strathead View Post
      The new wording in 210.8 NEC 2018 states that when determining distance for GFCI's it is "would follow without ... passing through a door. My first thought is that if the receptacle has to pass through a door, then a GFCI isn't required on the other side of the door. But I think I have read here where it is believed to be required. Can we discuss the reasoning? I can see where one might state, a cabinet door isn't a "door" in this case, for example.

      Is the disposal Recept within 6’ of the edge of the sink?

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by david View Post
        For the purposes of this section, when determining distance
        from receptacles the distance shall be measured as the shortest
        path the cord of an appliance connected to the receptacle
        would follow without piercing a floor, wall, ceiling, or fixed
        barrier, or passing through a door, doorway, or window.

        680.22
        (4) GFCI Protection. All 15- and 20-ampere, single-phase, 125-volt receptacles located within 6.0 m (20 ft) of the inside walls of a pool shall be protected by a ground-fault circuit interrupter.

        (5) Measurements. In determining the dimensions in this section addressing receptacle spacings, the distance to be measured shall be the shortest path the supply cord of an appliance connected to the receptacle would follow without piercing a floor, wall, ceiling, doorway with hinged or sliding door, window opening, or other effective permanent barrier.

        If there was a rec in a cabinet say 7 ft from a pool i would require it to have ground fault protection
        What if it is on other side of a wall, effectively in another "room" than what the pool is in? Certainly wouldn't hurt to GFCI protect it in most cases, but may not be all that necessary.

        Problem with making rules is all the "what if's" that didn't come up initially when making the rule.

        Originally posted by lordofthisworld View Post
        Is the disposal Recept within 6’ of the edge of the sink?
        When it comes to a direct line regardless of obstacles, usually they are, the topic of discussion is how to measure that distance when there is obstacles, openings, etc.
        I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by kwired View Post
          Problem with making rules is all the "what if's" that didn't come up initially when making the rule.
          That's what code compliance is all about: making the general fit the specific.
          Master Electrician
          Electrical Contractor
          Richmond, VA

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by ramsy View Post
            "Readily Accessible" currently prohibits "to climb over or under, to remove obstacles"
            See first paragraph of 210.8 and 210.12
            That has nothing to do with the requirement that the receptacle have GFCI protection. It just says you can't use a GFCI receptacle in that location to provide the required protection.
            Don, Illinois
            (All code citations are 2017 unless otherwise noted)

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by don_resqcapt19 View Post
              That has nothing to do with the requirement that the receptacle have GFCI protection. It just says you can't use a GFCI receptacle in that location to provide the required protection.
              Master's won't let monkeys use 2-pole GCFI's for MWBC's under sinks, but they might use 1-pole breaker for both dishwasher / disposer, and cap off extra leg in box.
              Roger Ramjet NoFixNoPay

              Comment


                #22
                Given all the recent torriod nec inclusions, I'm waiting for the decending ma (main, submains, ocpd's) model to debut here

                ~RJ~

                Comment


                  #23
                  So glad I'm retired.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by kwired View Post
                    What if it is on other side of a wall, effectively in another "room" than what the pool is in? Certainly wouldn't hurt to GFCI protect it in most cases, but may not be all that necessary.

                    Problem with making rules is all the "what if's" that didn't come up initially when making the rule.

                    When it comes to a direct line regardless of obstacles, usually they are, the topic of discussion is how to measure that distance when there is obstacles, openings, etc.
                    Doorway seems to have an understood meaning in the building trades the difference in the two sections

                    680 specifies a doorway with a hinged or sliding door (barrier) to separate the swimming pool area from the room in your post

                    My point is most would require, if a rec was in a cabinet in the swimming pool area to have GFCI protection. The wording is the same in both sections. As written the cabinet door does not create a separation that would be considered a barrier.

                    I agree if the code intends to exempt the rec in a cabinet it needs to be clear

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by david View Post
                      Doorway seems to have an understood meaning in the building trades the difference in the two sections

                      680 specifies a doorway with a hinged or sliding door (barrier) to separate the swimming pool area from the room in your post

                      My point is most would require, if a rec was in a cabinet in the swimming pool area to have GFCI protection. The wording is the same in both sections. As written the cabinet door does not create a separation that would be considered a barrier.

                      I agree if the code intends to exempt the rec in a cabinet it needs to be clear
                      I did not check out what is in 680 but as far as 210.8 goes, 2017 they added wording that I thought was clear the cabinet door is such a barrier. Now it is mentioned that will go away again. Must have been a failed attempt at whatever they were trying to get out of the first time around?
                      I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by ramsy View Post
                        Master's won't let monkeys use 2-pole GCFI's for MWBC's under sinks, but they might use 1-pole breaker for both dishwasher / disposer, and cap off extra leg in box.
                        Why? It is either GFCI protected or it is not, why does it matter if it is single pole, two pole or even three pole?
                        I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by kwired View Post
                          Why? It is either GFCI protected or it is not, why does it matter if it is single pole, two pole or even three pole?
                          Maybe it's just me. Never found one in resi fuse box in last 10 years.
                          How many 2-pole resets have you installed, and where, much less 3-pole?
                          Roger Ramjet NoFixNoPay

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by david View Post
                            Doorway seems to have an understood meaning in the building trades the difference in the two sections

                            680 specifies a doorway with a hinged or sliding door (barrier) to separate the swimming pool area from the room in your post

                            My point is most would require, if a rec was in a cabinet in the swimming pool area to have GFCI protection. The wording is the same in both sections. As written the cabinet door does not create a separation that would be considered a barrier.

                            I agree if the code intends to exempt the rec in a cabinet it needs to be clear
                            Didn't the '17 focus on accessibility of gfci's??? ~RJ~

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by ramsy View Post
                              Maybe it's just me. Never found one in resi fuse box in last 10 years.
                              How many 2-pole resets have you installed, and where, much less 3-pole?
                              3pole, any service 1.2kA and up iirc.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by romex jockey View Post
                                Didn't the '17 focus on accessibility of gfci's??? ~RJ~
                                Not sure how the test/ reset being accessible effects anything as far as GFCI protection of a Rec. goes.

                                Originally posted by ramsy View Post
                                "Readily Accessible" currently prohibits "to climb over or under, to remove obstacles"
                                See first paragraph of 210.8 and 210.12
                                Originally posted by don_resqcapt19 View Post
                                That has nothing to do with the requirement that the receptacle have GFCI protection. It just says you can't use a GFCI receptacle in that location to provide the required protection.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X