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    kill switch ?

    does the nfpa require a kill switch for a gas or oil burner at the top of the steps in a home since the price of gas is down and people are converting cite what article in nfpa or is it in the plumping and heating codes

    #2
    It's not in the NEC. For a gas unit it was required decades ago but not anymore. I believe that it is still required for oil burners. The requirement comes out of the mechanical code.
    Rob

    Moderator

    All responses based on the 2017 NEC unless otherwise noted

    Comment


      #3
      I think for pressurized systems (boilers in particular) there may be other than NEC codes that want an emergency shut off, usually near the entrance to the room, regardless what the energy source is.
      I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

      Comment


        #4
        National Fuel Gas Code Electrical Requirements NFPA 54, 2002 edition. To paraphrase, gas fired furnaces and boilers are prohibited from having the switch for two reasons- if there were a gas leak, operating the switch could cause a spark that could cause an explosion. Further, it does nothing to interrupt the gas supply if there were a leak at the furnace or boiler giving the occupants of the building a false sense of security.

        -Hal

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by hbiss View Post
          National Fuel Gas Code Electrical Requirements NFPA 54, 2002 edition. To paraphrase, gas fired furnaces and boilers are prohibited from having the switch for two reasons- if there were a gas leak, operating the switch could cause a spark that could cause an explosion. Further, it does nothing to interrupt the gas supply if there were a leak at the furnace or boiler giving the occupants of the building a false sense of security.

          -Hal
          Doesn't make much sense to me, if there is a gas leak any switch for any reason has same issue. Automatically controlled items are just as much a hazard also, including the gas appliance controls itself.
          I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

          Comment


            #6
            I think the reasoning is that if an occupant smells gas the first thing they will do is go to that switch and turn the furnace or boiler off. That may be enough to ignite the mixture. Or it might make them think that they fixed the problem (false sense of security). On the other hand it would kill power to the system so that the controls won't operate and cause a spark.

            If there were no switch the occupants just might realize that the only thing to do is to get out and call 911 like they are supposed to.

            -Hal

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by hbiss View Post
              I think the reasoning is that if an occupant smells gas the first thing they will do is go to that switch and turn the furnace or boiler off. That may be enough to ignite the mixture. Or it might make them think that they fixed the problem (false sense of security). On the other hand it would kill power to the system so that the controls won't operate and cause a spark.

              If there were no switch the occupants just might realize that the only thing to do is to get out and call 911 like they are supposed to.

              -Hal
              today they maybe likely to call 911 with a cell phone, but before cell phones just picking up the phone could be enough to ignite the gas, you were always supposed to leave the premises then call.

              And you were never supposed to turn off anything before leaving the premises either.
              I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

              Comment


                #8
                Leaving the premises without turning things off-- what do The Advisers say about going around the house and turning off the Main Disconnect that's right next to the meter??

                And, if it's gas, turning the valve on the meter (or propane tank)??

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by PaulMmn View Post
                  Leaving the premises without turning things off-- what do The Advisers say about going around the house and turning off the Main Disconnect that's right next to the meter??

                  And, if it's gas, turning the valve on the meter (or propane tank)??
                  The advice is to evacuate, get away from the premises and call 911 from your cell or another phone. Thinking that consumers should take matters into their own hands is just asking for trouble and wastes valuable time. Let the first responders handle it, that's what they are trained to do.

                  -Hal

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by infinity View Post
                    It's not in the NEC. For a gas unit it was required decades ago but not anymore. I believe that it is still required for oil burners. The requirement comes out of the mechanical code.
                    It's no longer in the IMC but NJ has put it back in.

                    vi.Add new Section M1307.7 as follows:M1307.7Safety devices and controls. Oil burners, other than oil stoves with integral tanks, shallbe provided with means for manually stopping the flow of oil to the burner. Such device ordevices shall be placed in a readily accessible location a minimum of 10 feet from the burner.For electrically driven equipment, an identified switch in the burner supply circuit shall beprovided at the entrance to the room or area where the appliance is located or, for equipmentlocated in basements, the switch is required to be located at the top of stairs leading to theOfficial version to be obtained from Lexis Nexis, www.lexis.comPage 13 of 18N.J.A.C. 5:23-3.21basement. An identifiable valve in the oil supply line, operable from a location a minimum of 10feet from the burner, shall be used for other than electrically driven or controlled equipment.
                    Rick Napier
                    Inspector and Instructor

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I wasn't talking about oil. Oil and gas fired equipment are two distinct things.

                      NFPA 31, Standard for the Installation of Oil-Burning Equipment, 2001 Edition
                      10.5 Operating Controls.
                      10.5.1*
                      Oil burners, other than oil stoves with integral tanks, shall be provided with some means for manually stopping the flow of oil to the burner. Such device or devices shall be placed in a readily accessible location at a safe distance from the burner.
                      10.5.1.1
                      For electrically powered appliances, the requirement of 10.5.1 shall be accomplished by an identified switch in the burner supply circuit, placed near the entrance to the room where the appliance is located.
                      10.5.1.2
                      For appliances that are not electrically powered, an identifiable valve in the oil supply line, operable from a location that can be reached without passing near the burner, shall be used.
                      10.5.2
                      An electrical service disconnect switch, arranged to stop and start the oil burner, shall be installed at the appliance. It shall be located so that it is within easy reach of the service technician for control of the oil burner while observing the flame.
                      -Hal

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by RICK NAPIER View Post
                        It's no longer in the IMC but NJ has put it back in.

                        vi.Add new Section M1307.7 as follows:M1307.7Safety devices and controls. Oil burners, other than oil stoves with integral tanks, shallbe provided with means for manually stopping the flow of oil to the burner. Such device ordevices shall be placed in a readily accessible location a minimum of 10 feet from the burner.For electrically driven equipment, an identified switch in the burner supply circuit shall beprovided at the entrance to the room or area where the appliance is located or, for equipmentlocated in basements, the switch is required to be located at the top of stairs leading to theOfficial version to be obtained from Lexis Nexis, www.lexis.comPage 13 of 18N.J.A.C. 5:23-3.21basement. An identifiable valve in the oil supply line, operable from a location a minimum of 10feet from the burner, shall be used for other than electrically driven or controlled equipment.
                        I was referring to gas burners, your code section seems to reference oil burners.
                        Rob

                        Moderator

                        All responses based on the 2017 NEC unless otherwise noted

                        Comment


                          #13
                          As was I. However the OP did ask or was confused about both gas and oil. As long as [MENTION=89348]RICK NAPIER[/MENTION] brought up oil it was a good opportunity to talk about what that requires.

                          -Hal

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