Gas range load calculation

[shortcircuit1]

Hello,

Is there anywhere in NEC where you are require to put a certain load(kW) in load calculations for a range even though its gas?

 

[david luchini]

Hello,

Is there anywhere in NEC where you are require to put a certain load(kW) in load calculations for a range even though its gas?

220.84

 

[Chamuit]

220.55 (2017) Speaks to ELECTRIC cooking appliances. I've never included a gas range in my calculations.

 

[shortcircuit1]

220.84

There's nothing in 220.84 for gas ranges.

 

[david luchini]

There's nothing in 220.84 for gas ranges.

Yes there is. Read the exception.

 

[shortcircuit1]

Yes there is. Read the exception.

The exception says you take the lowest between electric cooking and without electric cooking. I am clear on service size. Is there anywhere in NEC where it specifically says you need to add a certain kW for gas ranges(Perhaps in the future owner may switch to electric). I wasn't able to find it.

 

[shortcircuit1]

220.55 (2017) Speaks to ELECTRIC cooking appliances. I've never included a gas range in my calculations.

Thats exactly what i have but just want to see if anyone has other code references in NEC.

 

[david luchini]

The exception says you take the lowest between electric cooking and without electric cooking. I am clear on service size. Is there anywhere in NEC where it specifically says you need to add a certain kW for gas ranges(Perhaps in the future owner may switch to electric). I wasn't able to find it.

220.84 says to add 8kw for each gas range to use the optional method.

 

[gadfly56]

220.84 says to add 8kw for each gas range to use the optional method.

Have we established that this is a multi-family dwelling, since that's what 220.84 is all about?

 

[david luchini]

Have we established that this is a multi-family dwelling, since that's what 220.84 is all about?

No, but that wasn't the question. The question was is there anywhere in the NEC that requires you to put a certain kw for gas ranges into load calcs.

The answer is 220.84. It requires you to put in 8kw for gas ranges in it's load calc.

 

[charlie b]

I disagree, David. It requires no such thing. It allows you to insert the 8KW into a calculation, and then compare the results to another approach to the load calculation, and allows you to use the lower result.

My answer to the original question is that you don't have to include anything at all for the gas range's electrical components. 210.52(B)(2), Exception 2 tells me that I can install a receptacle to serve the gas range's "supplemental equipment and lighting." Furthermore, I can put that receptacle on one of the small appliance branch circuits. Since those are already accounted for at 1500 VA each, regardless of whether any SABC has 2 or 3 or more receptacles, the receptacle for the range does not need to be counted separately.

 

[MAC702]

... It requires you to put in 8kw for gas ranges in its load calc.

How can that even make sense? 8000 W for a light, ignition system, and a timer control?

 

[charlie b]

How can that even make sense? 8000 W for a light, ignition system, and a timer control?

Keep in mind that the 8KW value appears in an exception. The rule to which it is an exception says you can use this method only for units with electric cooking. Looking only at the rule, if you have gas ranges you can't use the method at all.

220.84 has some rather generous demand factors. It would not be appropriate to compare the results of a "standard method" calculation that allowed you not to have electric cooking with the results of an "optional method" calculation that also allowed you to not include electric cooking, because of the generous demand factors in the optional method.

 

[david luchini]

I disagree, David.

I'm not sure why you are disagreeing. If you want to calculate the load for multiple dwellings units with gas ranges using the optional method in 220.84, you are REQUIRED to include 8kw for each range in the calculation.

 

[kwired]

The exception says you take the lowest between electric cooking and without electric cooking. I am clear on service size. Is there anywhere in NEC where it specifically says you need to add a certain kW for gas ranges(Perhaps in the future owner may switch to electric). I wasn't able to find it.

How can that even make sense? 8000 W for a light, ignition system, and a timer control?

In some really tiny apartment with only 2 SABC's, 20 amp bath circuit, one maybe two other 15/20 amp circuit(s) that does everything else - so maybe only total connected load of 5-6 kW max, and now we need another 8kW?

 

[charlie b]

I'm not sure why you are disagreeing. If you want to calculate the load for multiple dwellings units with gas ranges using the optional method in 220.84, you are REQUIRED to include 8kw for each range in the calculation.

But you are not required to use the optional method.

I fear we are getting into the "blue-green" disagreement (see below). The OP did ask whether there was anything in the NEC that would require a specific load to be included in association with a gas range. So yes, there does exist such a place. If you wish to take advantage of the demand factors in 220.84, and if you are working on a multifamily dwelling, then you do need to include the 8KW. So that would be a correct answer to the question posted, given the way the question was worded.

However, I don't think it is a correct answer to the question the OP intended to ask. I note that the OP has not clarified whether the project under discussion involves a multi-family dwelling. I believe the answer the OP wanted was given in my post #11.

ASIDE: The "Blue-Green Disagreement":

• Person 1 says, "The sky is blue."
• Person 2 replies, "No, you are wrong. The grass is green."

 

[gadfly56]

I'm not sure why you are disagreeing. If you want to calculate the load for multiple dwellings units with gas ranges using the optional method in 220.84, you are REQUIRED to include 8kw for each range in the calculation.

I'll repeat my earlier objection; we don't know the OP is dealing with multiple dwellings. We shouldn't bother arguing this point until we have this information.

 

[david luchini]

But you are not required to use the optional method.

The question was "Is there anywhere in NEC where you are require to put a certain load(kW) in load calculations for a range even though its gas?"

220.84 requires you to put a certain kW load into the 220.84 load calculation for a range even though its gas. It's a simple answer to a simple question...no need to complicate it.

[FONT=&quot]
However, I don't think it is a correct answer to the question the OP intended to ask.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

I don't know how to respond to the question the OP intended to ask. I can only answer the question that was actually asked.

 

[jap]

..no need to complicate it.[/COLOR]

I'm still trying to figure this one out....


Person 1 says, "The sky is blue."
•Person 2 replies, "No, you are wrong. The grass is green."






JAP>

 

[charlie b]

I don't know how to respond to the question the OP intended to ask. I can only answer the question that was actually asked.

I learned a long time ago (from my wife, who was going through library school at the time) that if you wish to help someone, you may have to look past the words they have chosen to use, and strive to figure out what it is that they need.