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    Assited living facility

    Does an assisted living facility meet the definition of a "dwelling" unit? In so far the plans call that one of the 20amp counter circuits also feed lighting and the bathroom outlet- in addition to AFCI protection being called for only on one circuit.
    Attached Files

    #2
    I'm not seeing anything that would separate that space from a normal apartment. Could it possibly be defined as a Limited Care Facility?

    Limited Care Facility. A building or portion thereof used on a 24-hour basis for the housing of four or more persons who are incapable of self-preservation because of age; phys-ical limitation due to accident or illness; or limitations such as mental retardation/developmental disability, mental ill-ness, or chemical dependency
    As for AFCI- what Code cycle are you on?

    -Hal

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by hbiss View Post
      I'm not seeing anything that would separate that space from a normal apartment. Could it possibly be defined as a Limited Care Facility?



      As for AFCI- what Code cycle are you on?

      -Hal


      Limited care could well be applicable by its function. Basically a dormitory for elderly people.


      2014 NEC

      Comment


        #4
        This is a tough call. To me an assisted living facility is a step below a nursing home or limited care facility. Seniors who live in assisted living facilities normally require little assistance. They are there for the amenities like food and maid service much like a hotel but also knowing that there is staff 24/7 in case of an emergency. (Actually it would be cheaper to live in a hotel in most cases.)

        But because this space includes limited kitchen facilities like the refrigerator and sink it would be more like an efficiency apartment. Someone could use a microwave or countertop oven or both. So I would think that there should be two SABCs as usual.

        2014 requires everything to be AFCId except the A/C receptacle.

        I think this is something you need to get with the AHJ to see what his take is.

        -Hal

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by hbiss View Post
          This is a tough call. To me an assisted living facility is a step below a nursing home or limited care facility. Seniors who live in assisted living facilities normally require little assistance. They are there for the amenities like food and maid service much like a hotel but also knowing that there is staff 24/7 in case of an emergency. (Actually it would be cheaper to live in a hotel in most cases.)

          But because this space includes limited kitchen facilities like the refrigerator and sink it would be more like an efficiency apartment. Someone could use a microwave or countertop oven or both. So I would think that there should be two SABCs as usual.

          2014 requires everything to be AFCId except the A/C receptacle.

          I think this is something you need to get with the AHJ to see what his take is.

          -Hal

          Well said. It is literally a hotel with room service.

          The thing which makes it more difficult is that you have an onsite kitchen where residents are given daily meals if desired. So the counter may never get used, then again the option of use is still there.


          Would having/not having locks on the doors be a governing factor by chance?

          Comment


            #6
            Never saw an assisted living facility that didn't have locks on the doors. Residents can bring their own furniture and always personal items. Since the residents are reasonably competent, there are actually security concerns caused by socialization and interaction between males and females.

            If there were no locks it would indicate that the intended residents possess a diminished level of competence requiring a high level of care or supervision. They can't be left on their own. To me this would be a nursing facility and there would be nurse stations on each floor.

            If this were the case the kitchenette wouldn't be needed.

            -Hal

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by hbiss View Post
              Since the residents are reasonably competent, there are actually security concerns caused by socialization and interaction between males and females.


              -Hal
              ah....well....it's good to have some sort of exit plan Hal.....~RJ~

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by mbrooke View Post
                . So the counter may never get used, then again the option of use is still there.
                they forget stuff on the stove , and/or fall asleep .....

                i mean, if they just made a stove that shut down after an hour , a lot of FF's would sleep better

                ~RJ~

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by hbiss View Post
                  Never saw an assisted living facility that didn't have locks on the doors. Residents can bring their own furniture and always personal items. Since the residents are reasonably competent, there are actually security concerns caused by socialization and interaction between males and females.

                  If there were no locks it would indicate that the intended residents possess a diminished level of competence requiring a high level of care or supervision. They can't be left on their own. To me this would be a nursing facility and there would be nurse stations on each floor.

                  If this were the case the kitchenette wouldn't be needed.

                  -Hal

                  There is a nurse office but not a station to my understanding.

                  I guess it would be ruled as an efficiency apartment either way.


                  Between you and me I want it ruled as not being such because there are already 11 panels per floor and they are bursting to capacity with circuits. Having to add 2 or 3 more per suite probably mean that number will go to 13.
                  Attached Files

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by romex jockey View Post
                    ah....well....it's good to have some sort of exit plan Hal.....~RJ~
                    Apparently the thought is "I ain't dead yet, you old hottie!"

                    -Hal

                    Comment


                      #11
                      to be considered a residence wouldn't it need to have a means to cook?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        It has the ability to have a means to cook. Two 20A circuits to a countertop where a microwave or oven could be placed.

                        -Hal

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by hbiss View Post
                          It has the ability to have a means to cook. Two 20A circuits to a countertop where a microwave or oven could be placed.

                          -Hal
                          But that would not be a permanently installed cooking means.
                          You could also put in one or more induction hobs.

                          Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I think we have to look at this as a hotel room.

                            210.60 Guest Rooms, Guest Suites, Dormitories, and Similar Occupancies(A) General. Guest rooms or guest suites in hotels, motels, sleeping rooms in dormitories, and similar occupancies shall have receptacle outlets installed in accordance with 210.52(A) and (D). Guest rooms or guest suites provided with permanent provisions for cooking shall have receptacle outlets installed in accordance with all of the applicable rules in 210.52.
                            No, a microwave on the counter does not count as permanently installed. So I'm going to say it's probably OK except for the AFCIs.

                            -Hal

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by hbiss View Post
                              I think we have to look at this as a hotel room.

                              [COLOR=#333333]210.60 Guest Rooms, Guest Suites, [/COLOR][COLOR=#333333]Dormitories, and Similar Occupan[/COLOR][COLOR=#333333]cies[/COLOR][COLOR=#333333](A) General.[/COLOR][COLOR=#333333] Guest rooms or guest suites in hotels, motels, [/COLOR][COLOR=#333333]sleeping rooms in dormitories, and similar occupancies shall [/COLOR][COLOR=#333333]have receptacle outlets installed in accordance with [/COLOR][COLOR=#333333]210.52(A) and (D). Guest rooms or guest suites provided [/COLOR][COLOR=#333333]with permanent provisions for cooking shall have receptacle [/COLOR][COLOR=#333333]outlets installed in accordance with all of the applicable [/COLOR][COLOR=#333333]rules in 210.52.[/COLOR]
                              No, a microwave on the counter does not count as permanently installed. So I'm going to say it's probably OK except for the AFCIs.

                              -Hal
                              Correct. All depends on if it has all the elements in the definition of a dwelling unit. You can have a guest room/suite/dormitory that is both a guest room/suite/dormitory and also fits definition of dwelling unit.

                              In OP's case permanent provisions for cooking is what is going to be determining factor as to whether we have a dwelling unit, it has all other dwelling unit items per NEC definition.

                              This will impact whether you must install 210.52 required outlets or not, AFCI requirements, the 20 amp circuit for the bath, enables you to use 310.15(B)(7) for a feeder to that unit if it is a dwelling, all kitchen counter receptacles must be GFCI protected if it is a dwelling, maybe not if not a dwelling, though the small space in this case puts them all within 6 feet of the sink and they need GFCI anyway.
                              I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

                              Comment

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