Generator Inlets

[KAJ-Elite]

New to the forums so take it easy! We are primarily a residential new construction company and do generator installs occasionally. On option we offer is a sub panel with mechanical lockout and an inlet. We were called upon to do a pump station for a new subdivision one of our contractors was opening. It is a 480 v system and called for generator backup. I installed a mechanical transfer switch and pin and sleeve inlet. The waste water director is refusing to accept the station because of the inlet. He is demanding the pin and sleeve receptacle because that’s what his other stations have and already has the generator cords made up that way. That means the male end of the gen cord has the potential to be live and I refused. I now have to support my refusal with code. I know I’m right I just can’t find the applicable codes. Help!

 

[augie47]

NEC 406.7 supports your position !

 

[drcampbell]

So does common sense, though exposed live parts were "acceptable" for an awfully long time. (c.1885-1945, give or take)

You might ask the local electric inspector and OSHA inspector (or anybody else with clout -- maybe the county commissioners he reports to, or his wife?) to have a chat with this wastewater director. Exposed live parts are a fatality waiting to happen.

 

[zbang]

The only thing the director couple possibly hang their hat on is the idea of "qualified personal and written procedures". In my area, that and $3 will get you a cup of coffee (and maybe some change).

You could also mention that the way he wants it isn't likely to pass inspection, either.

 

[infinity]

It's a violation to install it his way so I would not do it.
Tell him to make up a female to female adapter to use his existing cords.

 

[drcampbell]

It's a violation to install it his way so I would not do it.
Tell him to make up a female to female adapter to use his existing cords.

How would a male-to-male cord with a female-to-female adapter not also be a hazard and a violation, unless maybe they were epoxied in place?
Don't ever tell (or suggest, hint, wink, et al.) anybody to do that. Tell him to hire you to make the existing equipment safe & code-compliant before there's a fatality.

 

[LarryFine]

He needs to understand why the others are the wrong ones, not the new one. He should be asking you to correct them.

Take him to the generator, start it, plug in the supply end, and hand him the other end. "Here, Bob, hold this."

 

[Coppersmith]

That means the male end of the gen cord has the potential to be live

There's a good reason these are called "suicide cords".

 

[infinity]

How is a short piece of cord with two FEMALE ends a hazard?

 

[LarryFine]

How is a short piece of cord with two FEMALE ends a hazard?

Hint: where are you gonna plug 'em?

 

[infinity]

Hint: where are you gonna plug 'em?

That's not his problem. The end user in this case is already using suicide cords. Notice in my first post I said "tell him" meaning tell the customer. KAJ's installation ends at the inlet and he's installing it per the NEC. Kudos to him for not following the request to install a violation.

 

[winnie]

How would a male-to-male cord with a female-to-female adapter not also be a hazard and a violation, unless maybe they were epoxied in place?
Don't ever tell (or suggest, hint, wink, et al.) anybody to do that. Tell him to hire you to make the existing equipment safe & code-compliant before there's a fatality.

If the female to female adapter is placed on the end of the cord prior to its being energized, then it turns that cord into a 'proper' male to female cord.

If the female to female adapter is placed on the generator inlet prior to the generator being plugged in, then it probably creates even more of a risk than the existing installations where the female receptacle is being used as an inlet.

However I agree that the existing installations are dangerous and should be upgraded.

-Jon

 

[infinity]

If the female to female adapter is placed on the end of the cord prior to its being energized, then it turns that cord into a 'proper' male to female cord.

If the female to female adapter is placed on the generator inlet prior to the generator being plugged in, then it probably creates even more of a risk than the existing installations where the female receptacle is being used as an inlet.

However I agree that the existing installations are dangerous and should be upgraded.

-Jon

That is what was implied but I see that maybe it didn't come across that way. I apologize for any confusion.

 

[drcampbell]

How is a short piece of cord with two FEMALE ends a hazard?

By itself, it's not. The uncorrected existing miswiring is the hazard. But making a F-to-F adapter would send the message that it's OK to continue using the M-to-M suicide cords.

He needs to understand ... Take him to the generator, start it, plug in the supply end, and hand him the other end. "Here, Bob, hold this."

I realize you're exaggerating to make a point, but this is the Internet; billions of people can read it; somebody somewhere is likely to try it; and they could end up with fried-Bob kabob.
Better that you ask him to hold the male plug and visualize what would happen if the 480-volt generator were running. Be sure to emphasize "480 volts" during this teachable moment.

 

[LarryFine]

Better that you ask him to hold the male plug and visualize what would happen if the 480-volt generator were running. Be sure to emphasize "480 volts" during this teachable moment.

Yeah, that's what I meant; visualize.

Visualize handing him the cord end.

 

[jap]

New to the forums so take it easy! We are primarily a residential new construction company and do generator installs occasionally. On option we offer is a sub panel with mechanical lockout and an inlet. We were called upon to do a pump station for a new subdivision one of our contractors was opening. It is a 480 v system and called for generator backup. I installed a mechanical transfer switch and pin and sleeve inlet. The waste water director is refusing to accept the station because of the inlet. He is demanding the pin and sleeve receptacle because that’s what his other stations have and already has the generator cords made up that way. That means the male end of the gen cord has the potential to be live and I refused. I now have to support my refusal with code. I know I’m right I just can’t find the applicable codes. Help!

You are correct, but, this is hard for me to even imagine.

Are you sure this is not just a misunderstanding?

If their generator cords are actually made up that way, there's not the "potential" that the male end might become energized, there's no doubt it's going to be energized, which is not only a code violation, but a huge disrespect for personal safety.

Have you actually verified that the generator cords are made up that way,or that there may not be some kind of compatibility issue with the cord ends on their cords and the inlet you installed?

Generally authorities, especially a Director, in these area's and the workers that roll up the generators when needed, have some pretty good electrical knowledge of the operation, and,have no need to cut corners in this way.

Just seems odd to me.

Good for you in standing your ground if what you described is actually the case.

Jap>

 

[tom baker]

I used inlets under the IEC 309 standard, each is unique to the voltage and phase, they are interchange able between manufacturers
Like this
https://www.leviton.com/en/products...ort=@wcs_site_tree_rank ascending&layout=card

Great selection of inlets and backboxes.

some of our lift stations originally used dryer plugs, probably as a non electrician does not know what an inlet is, so an outlet (recptacle) gets used.