Fired up.

[ptonsparky]

I was hired by an area village to install a 3R 200 amp MB, 8 circuit, 1ph load center with feed thru lugs on a lot they own. Nothing more. Ok, 2-3 hours including drive time. SED inspector had a fit that I had no load breakers, let alone no load planned. Explaining I was not hired to do more and if my panel met code then there was no reason not to energize it. It is not my problem what happens after I leave or how they plan on using it.

How do your areas handle these requests?

 

[ActionDave]

I always install a gfci recpt below or on the side of the panel.

 

[hbiss]

SED=POCO?

Was the panel inspected and passed by the electrical inspector? When you filed for it what did you give as the load?

To me it's not finished unless there is at least one breaker and a receptacle. You might have been hired to do only what you did but you could have told them that they need a breaker and receptacle to get connected. They can do whatever they want with them afterwards.

-Hal

 

[sii]

SED=POCO?

Was the panel inspected and passed by the electrical inspector? When you filed for it what did you give as the load?

To me it's not finished unless there is at least one breaker and a receptacle. You might have been hired to do only what you did but you could have told them that they need a breaker and receptacle to get connected. They can do whatever they want with them afterwards.

-Hal

State Electrical Department

Where does the code say a load is required?

 

[ptonsparky]

State Electrical Department

Where does the code say a load is required?

Exactly.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

That would never be an issue around here. They inspect the service and that's it.

In NC they cannot require you to do more than what your permit includes.

 

[ptonsparky]

I always install a gfci recpt below or on the side of the panel.

I asked if a GFCI protected typical RV box that contained a 50A, 30A and 20A, would make him happy. 210.8(B)(4)Outdoors. This is not an RV Park, yet. We ended up putting two of the RV boxes in.

 

[ptonsparky]

A bit more to the story.

The village is well known in the area for its July 4th Rodeo and celebration. This year they added a small traveling carnival and it turns out the power was for the workers campers. Their ‘electrician’ was going to connect power via spider boxes to those units. I was already on the way up with RV box 1 when I find this out via help who was in the area. I meet knowledgeable customer at location and we decide two RV boxes are warranted. Another trip.

Carnival spider box is the worst thing I’ve ever seen that is still expected to function. Soot throughout the interior and that’s the good part. They may eventually plug into my RV boxes, but I don’t expect them to hold.

Inspector is not due until a Monday.

 

[Cow]

It wouldn't be an issue here.

I ran a feeder in a home once from the main panel to a sub I installed in the garage. The homeowner would take it from there with the BC's. Inspector made a note, only feeder and sub, no BC's.

 

[hbiss]

State Electrical Department

Where does the code say a load is required?

No, not the Code. Didn't the POCO want a load calc on their application for service?

Or am I confused thinking that SED was the name of the POCO and it was their inspector who turned it down.

-Hal

 

[ptonsparky]

No, not the Code. Didn't the POCO want a load calc on their application for service?

Or am I confused thinking that SED was the name of the POCO and it was their inspector who turned it down.

-Hal

State Electrical Division. Our State Inspector.

 

[jap]

Our area also requires something to be installed to pass inspection such as a gfi receptacle or the like.

Not an NEC thing.

Must be some type of inspection thing.

Jap>

 

[Gary11734]

I was hired by an area village to install a 3R 200 amp MB, 8 circuit, 1ph load center with feed thru lugs on a lot they own. Nothing more. Ok, 2-3 hours including drive time. SED inspector had a fit that I had no load breakers, let alone no load planned. Explaining I was not hired to do more and if my panel met code then there was no reason not to energize it. It is not my problem what happens after I leave or how they plan on using it.

How do your areas handle these requests?

It sounds like the Inspector has seen this before. You do a NEC code compliant job, then the trunk slammers come in after you.

He has a valid point. And, if it's not valid, he's the AHJ, so he can do pretty much what he wants.

Ask him what he wants would be the best approach, then go back to the customer and get a change order.

Right now, the power is in your hands since the power is OFF, and not your fault...

 

[ptonsparky]

It sounds like the Inspector has seen this before. You do a NEC code compliant job, then the trunk slammers come in after you.

He has a valid point. And, if it's not valid, he's the AHJ, so he can do pretty much what he wants.

Ask him what he wants would be the best approach, then go back to the customer and get a change order.

Right now, the power is in your hands since the power is OFF, and not your fault...

I know that the AHJ can do or attempt what he wants, but for me, I need an NEC reference as to why. I do not make a habit of arguing with AHJs outside of code classes.
He does have a point to make about the TSs. We all have seen it but I cannot control what happens after I leave. We were available within the time frame the customer wanted, others were not.
210.64 of the 2014 NEC would have been a good section to quote IF we were not under the 2017.

 

[Gary11734]

I know that the AHJ can do or attempt what he wants, but for me, I need an NEC reference as to why. I do not make a habit of arguing with AHJs outside of code classes.
He does have a point to make about the TSs. We all have seen it but I cannot control what happens after I leave. We were available within the time frame the customer wanted, others were not.
210.64 of the 2014 NEC would have been a good section to quote IF we were not under the 2017.

The problem is; your correct! Contractors are not snowflakes. We plant our flag when we know we are in the right. But, as I have learned over the years, never plant your flag assuming the AHJ is going to go with simple common sense, LOGIC!

I hope it all works out for you...

After working with the School Board, County, Federal, and who knows who else had that their hand in my pocket, they wore me down until I started thinking that I would just pass the cost down to the customer and let the next guy that wanted to be "right" have a go at it!

Best Regards,

Gary

 

[MAC702]

An old boss I had told me it was better to be rich than right. I was too smart to believe him back then. Now I know better.

 

[Gary11734]

An old boss I had told me it was better to be rich than right. I was too smart to believe him back then. Now I know better.

I figured that out, about twenty years into the business! Damn electricians are hard headed!

 

[kwired]

Anybody doing work after you needs to file their own permit. I'd stand there with you on this debate. I've had temp construction services permitted/inspected and then energized only to come back and find the GC or others have modified my temp service, to include increasing OCPD's, eliminating GFCI's, or adding additional circuits - IMO, not my problem yet if someone were injured or killed because of those modifications guess who fingers will be pointing at first

One load that is required however is a receptacle outlet mentioned in 210.64. He should not have anything to reject if you at least have that outlet. He should however be smart enough to know that someone else will connect something else eventually, but that is not on you unless you file an additional permit down the road to add that load.

 

[ptonsparky]

So inspector called. He found a loose 6 bare from one of the Midwest boxes to the GES for the separate structure we built to hold said boxes. WTH...I stood there and watched! Guy #1:ashamed: says ‘o, yea I loosened it to...’:jawdrop:

Inspector could see it was an oops, reinserted and tightened it up and apologized for no torque screwdriver. (I now owe him.) Had a couple questions about rods, had called POCO for connection and said have good weekend.