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Res. kitchen appl. & rec on same ckt.

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    Res. kitchen appl. & rec on same ckt.

    I made the title short so it would all fit.

    Is it okay to supply one kitchen-counter GFCI receptacle and a dishwasher on one circuit, and one other GFCI receptacle and a disposer on one other circuit?

    Wouldn't this be okay as long as the hard-wired loads don't exceed 50% of the circuit capacity? (The appliances would not be on the GFCI load terminals.)
    Master Electrician
    Electrical Contractor
    Richmond, VA

    #2
    I'm goanna say no but maybe
    Last edited by Sierrasparky; 07-08-19, 01:02 AM.

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      #3
      No, because the SABCs are exclusively for the countertop appliances- with the exception of the refrigerator receptacle. (And I don't normally even put the refrig on them.

      -Hal

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by hbiss View Post
        No, because the SABCs are exclusively for the countertop appliances- with the exception of the refrigerator receptacle. (And I don't normally even put the refrig on them.

        -Hal
        I agree the answer would be no, But i do not think the statement about SABC and counter-top receptacles is correct

        The kitchen counter tops have to be supplied by the min of two small appliance branch circuits but all the required rec in the kitchen would also be served by two or more small appliance branch circuits

        Comment


          #5
          No to the same circuit for the reasons given.
          I generally put the disposal and DW on the same circuit.
          If you aim at nothing, you will hit it every time!

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by LarryFine View Post
            Is it okay to supply one kitchen-counter GFCI receptacle and a dishwasher on one circuit, and one other GFCI receptacle and a disposer on one other circuit?

            Wouldn't this be okay as long as the hard-wired loads don't exceed 50% of the circuit capacity?
            1) Yes, if appliances tapped from separate disposer/DW circuit
            2) Yes, if at least 2 SABC's remain dedicated to counter plugs
            3) Yes, if replacing old-work plugs only, per 406.4(D)

            Originally posted by LarryFine View Post
            (The appliances would not be on the GFCI load terminals.)
            Since 2014 NEC that dishwasher needs GFCI protected with new wiring or plug
            Since 2014 NEC everything in the kitchen also needs AFCI protection
            Last edited by ramsy; 07-08-19, 04:33 AM.
            Roger Ramjet NoFixNoPay

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by ramsy View Post
              1) Yes, if appliances tapped from separate disposer/DW circuit
              Then that would be a No, because it's a circuit for the dishwasher, not a small appliance branch circuit.
              2) Yes, if at least 2 SABC's remain dedicated to counter plugs
              Then that would also be a No. Any circuit serving the countertops shall have no other outlets. 210(B) (2) I believe.

              Teams of insurance agents and lawyers are gathering to start lawsuits right now.
              If Billy Idol is on your playlist go reevaluate your life.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by ActionDave View Post
                Teams of insurance agents and lawyers are gathering to start lawsuits right now.
                Glad someone is paying attention, even if that part wasn't mentioned.
                Roger Ramjet NoFixNoPay

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by ramsy View Post
                  1) Yes, if appliances tapped from separate disposer/DW circuit
                  2) Yes, if at least 2 SABC's remain dedicated to counter plugs
                  3) Yes, if replacing old-work plugs only, per 406.4(D)


                  Since 2014 NEC that dishwasher needs GFCI protected with new wiring or plug
                  Since 2014 NEC everything in the kitchen also needs AFCI protection
                  Small appliance branch circuits are not limited to counter top receptacles. That seems to be a misunderstanding in this thread.

                  Originally posted by ramsy View Post
                  1)
                  2) Yes, if at least 2 SABC's remain dedicated to counter plugs
                  It doesn't matter how many SABC's serve just the counter tops , All the small appliance branch circuits are dedicated circuits to all required receptacles in areas requiring SABC's

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Oh heck another NO won't hurt....
                    They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
                    She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
                    I can't help it if I'm lucky

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by david View Post
                      Small appliance branch circuits are not limited to counter top receptacles. That seems to be a misunderstanding in this thread..
                      Here is an interesting code section that may apply to Larry's case.
                      2017 NEC 210.52(B)(1) Exception No.2

                      Exception No. 2: In addition to the required receptacles specified by 210.52, a receptacle outlet to serve a specific appliance shall be permitted to be supplied from an individual branch circuit rated 15 amperes or greater.
                      Roger Ramjet NoFixNoPay

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by ramsy View Post
                        Here is an interesting code section that may apply to Larry's case.
                        2017 NEC 210.52(B)(1) Exception No.2

                        Exception No. 2: In addition to the required receptacles specified by 210.52, a receptacle outlet to serve a specific appliance shall be permitted to be supplied from an individual branch circuit rated 15 amperes or greater.
                        What does that have to do with powering a dishwasher from the SABC?
                        If Billy Idol is on your playlist go reevaluate your life.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by ActionDave View Post
                          What does that have to do with powering a dishwasher from the SABC?
                          I asked that question first, so please explain why Larry can't use this exception.
                          Roger Ramjet NoFixNoPay

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I should have popped back in sooner. This entire thread is because I need to label the panel directory.

                            My work involves finishing a non-permitted upgrade, 200a MB panel on the old 100a service cable and meter. Probably done in conjunction with a non-permitted HVAC installation.

                            A lug in the 100a meter base overheated. Imagine that.

                            I have done the grounding that was never done, new service cable and meter base, presently jumped from the old one, cable clamps, etc. Inspection is all that remains.

                            There is a circuit that feeds a receptacle outlet, then down to a dishwasher; same for a second outlet, to a switch and disposer. There are two 20a circuits where three were needed.

                            Again, I need to label the panel for inspection. The kitchen circuits won't be scrutinized unless I call attention to them. I'm not concerned electrically speaking; it will work as is.
                            Master Electrician
                            Electrical Contractor
                            Richmond, VA

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by ramsy View Post
                              I asked that question first, so please explain why Larry can't use this exception.
                              I can; that exception allows an additional receptacle.

                              I need something that allows me to label a breaker "kitchen receptacle and dishwasher."
                              Master Electrician
                              Electrical Contractor
                              Richmond, VA

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