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    Feeder into building

    Attached sketch shows 120/028V, three phase, 1600A main service building disconnect located on the outside wall of the building. Load side of the service disconnect I have 2 sets of 250kcmil AL conductors routed 160 feet inside the building to 200A fused disconnect labeled Disco #2 which then feeds tenant Panel A. Also Disco #2 has GEC going to common ground.

    There are three more additional feeders from main service disco that feed Disco #1, Disco #3, Disco #4 all grounded (not shown)

    All this is in commericial multi tenant building.


    The questions are following:

    1. Does attach sketch comply with 240.21(B)? If yes or no then which rule 10 feet, 25 feet or outside?

    2. Does attach sketch bring Article 225 into question outside feeders to building?

    3. Not sure why Disco #2 is grounded. Which code says to do that?

    4. Is their a need for disconnect to be located right at the point of entry of entrance of feeders coming into building? If yes then which code section.


    Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk

    #2
    Are those conductors considered outside the building per 230.6?
    Ethan Brush - East West Electric. NY, WA. MA

    "You can't generalize"

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by electrofelon View Post
      Are those conductors considered outside the building per 230.6?
      You have main service disconnect and load side of the main service disconnect you have the feeders going in the building. How are they outside and how are they service conductors?

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        #4
        Originally posted by hhsting View Post
        You have main service disconnect and load side of the main service disconnect you have the feeders going in the building. How are they outside and how are they service conductors?

        Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk
        Right it is a feeder, but see 230.6. I believe other articles for non service conductors reference back to 230.6
        Ethan Brush - East West Electric. NY, WA. MA

        "You can't generalize"

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by electrofelon View Post
          Right it is a feeder, but see 230.6. I believe other articles for non service conductors reference back to 230.6
          Ok i see. However, the 160 feet in length feeders are mounted on underside of the 2nd floor slab so how they would qualify as 230.6(1) or (2)?
          Also what about the GEC at the disconnect?

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          Last edited by hhsting; 07-12-19, 12:29 PM.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by hhsting View Post
            Ok i see. However, the 160 feet in length feeders are mounted on underside of the 2nd floor slab so how they would qualify as 230.6(1) or (2)?
            Also what about the GEC at the disconnect?

            Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk
            I wasn't saying they did qualify for the outside unlimited tap rule, was just asking. It appears they do not, and if I am interpreting everything correctly, then it is not compliant.
            Ethan Brush - East West Electric. NY, WA. MA

            "You can't generalize"

            Comment


              #7
              Confusing parts of sketch post #1 is Disco #2 grounding may be indicating this is considered as outside feeders feeding in building. However, there are 4 feeders going into building so those 4 feeders are not in compliance with 225.30.

              If you considered feeder taps 10 and 25 feet then it is not in compliance with 240.24(B) 10 ft and 25ft rules.

              Overall its confusing install not sure how to bring it upto code.

              Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by hhsting View Post
                Confusing parts of sketch is Disco #2 grounding may be indicating this is considered as outside feeders feeding in building. However, there are 4 feeders going into building so those 4 feeders are not in compliance with 225.30.

                If you considered feeder taps 10 and 25 feet then it is not in compliance with 240.24(B) 10 ft and 25ft rules.

                Overall its confusing install

                Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk
                It's not a 225.30 violation since the service disconnect is on the building. You can come out with as many feeder as you want, but they need over current protection or have to comply with a tap rule
                Ethan Brush - East West Electric. NY, WA. MA

                "You can't generalize"

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by electrofelon View Post
                  It's not a 225.30 violation since the service disconnect is on the building. You can come out with as many feeder as you want, but they need over current protection or have to comply with a tap rule
                  Service disconnect is on the building but not considered outside so tap rule would be either 10ft or 25ft but not outside tap rule since service disconnect is on the building.

                  So if there are no outside feeders then what is GEC doing at Disco #2? I dont see how thats per code.

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                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by hhsting View Post
                    Service disconnect is on the building but not considered outside so tap rule would be either 10ft or 25ft but not outside tap rule since service disconnect is on the building.
                    Conductors can be considered outside, but not actually be outside. See 240.21(B)(5) and 230.6 if you haven't read those thoroughly.
                    Ethan Brush - East West Electric. NY, WA. MA

                    "You can't generalize"

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by electrofelon View Post
                      Conductors can be considered outside, but not actually be outside. See 240.21(B)(5) and 230.6 if you haven't read those thoroughly.
                      I think i understand what you mean. 230.6 allows conductors to be inside but methods followed 230.6 can be considered as conductors to be outside. Ofcourse then those are outside conductors by code.

                      So my questions are:
                      1. If you use 240.21(B)(5) your conductors are outside by code then you would also have to use 225.30 which does not allow multiple outside feeders into building. I have four feeders into bldg. No? If not then i dont follow.

                      2. I have GEC and GES at Disoc #1, Disco #2, Disco #3 and Disco #4. How is that per code?



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                      Last edited by hhsting; 07-12-19, 05:15 PM.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by hhsting View Post
                        I think i understand what you mean. 230.6 allows conductors to be inside but methods followed 230.6 can be considered as conductors to be outside. Ofcourse then those are outside conductors by code.

                        So my questions are:
                        1. If you use 240.21(B)(5) your conductors are outside by code then you would also have to use 225.30 which does not allow multiple outside feeders into building. I have four feeders into bldg. No? If not then i dont follow.

                        2. I have GEC and GES at Disoc #1, Disco #2, Disco #3 and Disco #4. How is that per code?



                        Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk
                        The intent of 230.6 is to provide enough protection for conductors so that their lack of over current protection will not endanger the building if they burn up. Just because they are "outside conductors" for that purpose, doesn't make them a multiple supply to a building violation.
                        Ethan Brush - East West Electric. NY, WA. MA

                        "You can't generalize"

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by electrofelon View Post
                          The intent of 230.6 is to provide enough protection for conductors so that their lack of over current protection will not endanger the building if they burn up. Just because they are "outside conductors" for that purpose, doesn't make them a multiple supply to a building violation.
                          What if one goes with 240.21(B)(5)(4)(a) or 240.21(B)(5)(4)(b) none of them reference back to 230.6?

                          Can you have multiple outside feeder taps feeder going into building?

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                          Last edited by hhsting; 07-12-19, 05:43 PM.

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                            #14
                            What if one goes with 240.21(B)(5)(4)(a) or 240.21(B)(5)(4)(b) none of them reference back to 230.6?

                            Can you have multiple sets of outside feeder taps feeders going into building?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by electrofelon View Post
                              Right it is a feeder, but see 230.6. I believe other articles for non service conductors reference back to 230.6
                              Do you mind sharing which articles for non service conductors reference back to 230.6? I only found one 240.21(B)(5)(c).

                              Thanks

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