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    Elevator PITS

    There is a dispute here at my shop over how many circuits are REQUIRED to be in an elevator PIT. If you respond to this thread, please read arefully 620.22, 620.23, and 620.24 before hand.

    #2
    Originally posted by Electricutioner17 View Post
    There is a dispute here at my shop over how many circuits are REQUIRED to be in an elevator PIT. If you respond to this thread, please read arefully 620.22, 620.23, and 620.24 before hand.
    Which code cycle? 2014 or 2017.

    Comment


      #3
      2017

      Comment


        #4
        One. Though I understand how someone might argue two. My reasoning comes from 620.24(A) and (C). (A) tells us that the lighting and receptacle(s) for the pit must be on separate circuits. But the lights don't have to be in the pit itself. If you can illuminate the pit using lights that are "above the top of the pit" (whatever that might mean), then the only circuit that serves anything "within the pit" is the receptacle circuit required by (C).
        Charles E. Beck, P.E., Seattle
        Comments based on 2017 NEC unless otherwise noted.

        Comment


          #5
          Sounds like two circuits to me:

          2017 NEC:

          620.24 Branch Circuit for Hoistway Pit Lighting and Recepta‐
          cles.
          (A) Separate Branch Circuits. Separate branch circuits shall
          supply the hoistway pit lighting and receptacles.
          Required lighting shall not be connected to the load side of
          a ground-fault circuit interrupter.
          Rob

          Moderator

          All responses based on the 2014 NEC unless otherwise noted

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by charlie b View Post
            One. Though I understand how someone might argue two. My reasoning comes from 620.24(A) and (C). (A) tells us that the lighting and receptacle(s) for the pit must be on separate circuits. But the lights don't have to be in the pit itself. If you can illuminate the pit using lights that are "above the top of the pit" (whatever that might mean), then the only circuit that serves anything "within the pit" is the receptacle circuit required by (C).
            I don't have A17.1 handy, but I seem to recall that the light actually has to be in the pit.

            Comment


              #7
              620.24 Branch Circuit for Hoistway Pit Lighting and Recepta‐
              cles.
              (A) Separate Branch Circuits. Separate branch circuits shall
              supply the hoistway pit lighting and receptacles.
              Required lighting shall not be connected to the load side of
              a ground-fault circuit interrupter.
              That's a change from the 2014. The 2014 required a separate circuit for the pit lighting and receptacles (that one singular circuit for both lights and recept.) While the new 2017 requires "Separate Branch Circuits" as in 2 or more circuits, apparently with the lights on one circuit and receptacles on the other circuit.

              What a difference dropping an "A" and adding an "s" makes in a sentence. They should have just phrased it like 620.23(A) and said "the branch circuit supplying pit receptacles shall be separate from the branch circuit supplying pit lighting. These circuits shall supply not other loads." That would have been much clearer.

              Anyhow, 2 separate circuits are required for the pit if you are under the 2017 code, and assuming you have some lighting in the pit.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by steve66 View Post
                That's a change from the 2014. The 2014 required a separate circuit for the pit lighting and receptacles (that one singular circuit for both lights and recept.) While the new 2017 requires "Separate Branch Circuits" as in 2 or more circuits, apparently with the lights on one circuit and receptacles on the other circuit.

                What a difference dropping an "A" and adding an "s" makes in a sentence. They should have just phrased it like 620.23(A) and said "the branch circuit supplying pit receptacles shall be separate from the branch circuit supplying pit lighting. These circuits shall supply not other loads." That would have been much clearer.

                Anyhow, 2 separate circuits are required for the pit if you are under the 2017 code, and assuming you have some lighting in the pit.
                Here's the 2014 and 2017 for comparison.

                2014 NEC:

                620.24 Branch Circuit for Hoistway Pit Lighting and
                Receptacle(s).
                (A) Separate Branch Circuit. A separate branch circuit
                shall supply the hoistway pit lighting and receptacle(s).
                Required lighting shall not be connected to the load
                side of a ground-fault circuit interrupter.
                2017 NEC:

                620.24 Branch Circuit for Hoistway Pit Lighting and Recepta‐
                cles.
                (A) Separate Branch Circuits. Separate branch circuits shall
                supply the hoistway pit lighting and receptacles.
                Required lighting shall not be connected to the load side of
                a ground-fault circuit interrupter.
                Rob

                Moderator

                All responses based on the 2014 NEC unless otherwise noted

                Comment


                  #9
                  I was arguing 1. Mostly because 620.23 specifically and clearly separates the receptacle circuit from the lighting circuit and 620.24 does not. If would have been ridiculously easy to just copy and paste to make them the same but kept them different. Both are titled with “separate branch circuitS”. I feel that the S is just saying that however many circuits you use, they must be separate from all other locations. Plus gfci receptacle is required in pit and it talks about the lights not coming off the load side of a gfci.
                  Update/FYI- the print originally called for just 1. We Wrote up an RFI and the engineer came back with a confident 1 again. Waiting on word from inspector.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    IMO there is no argument whether or not you need separate circuits under the 2017 NEC with the code wording change. Here's the PI for the change from the 2014.

                    Public Input No. 457-NFPA 70-2014 [ Section No. 620.24(A) ]
                    (A) Separate Branch Circuit.
                    A separate branch circuit(s) shall supply the hoistway pit lighting and receptacle(s).
                    Required lighting shall not be connected to the load side of a ground-fault circuit interrupter.
                    Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
                    The requirement of the receptacle to be 120v in 620.24 (C) and the implication of section 620.24(A)that there is
                    only one circuit serving both lights and receptacles leads one to believe that there is only 120v lighting and
                    receptacle branch circuit allowed. The problem this creates is that if an inspection light or double insulated hand
                    tool shorts out the light in the room are out. Also in practice in larger building the lighting is 277v and a second
                    voltage (120v) or universal ballasts would be required for maintenance.
                    Allowing separate dedicated circuits for lights and separate dedicated circuit for receptacles could eliminate the
                    potential for injury during maintenance if the single lighting and receptacle circuit was lost due to failure of a cord
                    connected device.
                    Submitter Information Verification
                    Submitter Full Name Daniel Pohnert
                    Organization: BRPH
                    Street Address:
                    City:
                    State:
                    Zip:
                    Submittal Date: Wed Mar 26 16:41:54 EDT 2014
                    Committee Statement
                    Resolution: FR-3387-NFPA 70-2015
                    Statement: Providing separate branch circuits for lighting loads and receptacle loads will provide greater safety
                    for those maintaining this equipment.
                    Rob

                    Moderator

                    All responses based on the 2014 NEC unless otherwise noted

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Electricutioner17 View Post
                      I was arguing 1. Mostly because 620.23 specifically and clearly separates the receptacle circuit from the lighting circuit and 620.24 does not. If would have been ridiculously easy to just copy and paste to make them the same but kept them different. Both are titled with “separate branch circuitS”. I feel that the S is just saying that however many circuits you use, they must be separate from all other locations. Plus gfci receptacle is required in pit and it talks about the lights not coming off the load side of a gfci.
                      Update/FYI- the print originally called for just 1. We Wrote up an RFI and the engineer came back with a confident 1 again. Waiting on word from inspector.
                      Has the 2017 been adopted where you are?

                      I hear what you are saying about the wording, but I agree two circuits are required.

                      At the very least, they have made it easy for a lot of people to miss the change.

                      Comment

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