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Grounded Conductor - Switch Leg

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  • kwired
    replied
    Originally posted by jap View Post

    The circuit may not need the neutral conductor to function, but, I think he has one, otherwise, why would he have even mentioned a "grounded conductor" in his original post?

    JAP>
    IDK, but if the load doesn't utilize a neutral yet you run one anyway does it count as one of the "all conductors of the circuit"?

    No different than pulling extras that are not white or gray IMO. They mean nothing to the rules in discussion here, until you utilize them.

    Leave a comment:


  • jap
    replied
    Originally posted by kwired View Post


    First the OP's circuit doesn't have or need a neutral conductor to function.
    The circuit may not need the neutral conductor to function, but, I think he has one, otherwise, why would he have even mentioned a "grounded conductor" in his original post?

    JAP>

    Leave a comment:


  • RD35
    replied
    Sorry for the double post.....not sure how that happened! Looks like I accidentally posted it up before I finished proofreading/editing it.

    Leave a comment:


  • RD35
    replied
    Sorry folks! I had to be away for a while and just now got back to this thread! I was thinking there was a section in the code addressing this....and you have led me to it! 300.3(B) (2017 edition)! The first sentence where it says "where used" is what I needed to know! Thank-you! I probably gave a little too much detail and made my OP confusing. I was only concerned about whether I needed to have the grounded conductor enter that switch box. Seems the majority of you all agree that I don't. And so that is how I will draw up the design for this switch. Will use a 1" nipple (although a 3/4 would work...just easier for the electrician to pull) and (4) #6 THHN conductors (2 in...and 2 out). Thanks everybody for the great discussion and the code guidance! I'm still rusty from being away from this work for a few years. I keep reading the code and following this forum! Getting spun up pretty quick!

    Leave a comment:


  • kwired
    replied
    Originally posted by hbiss View Post
    300.4(B) simply requires that the grounded conductor (IF USED) be run together in the same raceway as the other associated conductors. You can't run it separately.

    You don't have to run the neutral if you don't need it.

    -Hal

    Leave a comment:


  • hbiss
    replied
    300.4(B) simply requires that the grounded conductor (IF USED) be run together in the same raceway as the other associated conductors. You can't run it separately.

    You don't have to run the neutral if you don't need it.

    -Hal

    Leave a comment:


  • kwired
    replied
    Originally posted by infinity View Post

    That was my impression as well. The question is does the nipple into the switch require the EGC and neutral conductor to be brought into it as indicated in 300.4(B)?

    300.4(B) Conductors of the Same Circuit. All conductors of
    the same circuit and, where used, the grounded conductor
    and all equipment grounding conductors and bonding con-
    ductors shall be contained within the same raceway, auxil-
    iary gutter, cable tray, cablebus assembly, trench, cable, or
    cord, unless otherwise permitted in accordance with
    300.3(B)(1) through (B)(4).
    First the OP's circuit doesn't have or need a neutral conductor to function.

    Second, though it may not be clearly stated in there, I think the intention of this section is to reduce magnetic effects. We certainly don't need to bring a neutral to a typical wall switch (until they changed rule some for possibility of control devices that may need it) because if you have line in and line out from a switch in same raceway or cable the magnetic effects cancel each other if both (or all four in OP's application)

    The EGC still needs to run with conductors or be enclosing them, it has no magnetic effects until there is fault current being carried on it, but they want it to be with the other conductors or enclosing them for same magnetic effect reasons during a fault condition.

    Leave a comment:


  • infinity
    replied
    Originally posted by kwired View Post
    I think the main question was concerning whether there needed to be a grounded conductor in the disconnect and he just wanted to make it clear there was nothing in the raceway except for ungrounded conductors.
    That was my impression as well. The question is does the nipple into the switch require the EGC and neutral conductor to be brought into it as indicated in 300.4(B)?

    300.4(B) Conductors of the Same Circuit. All conductors of
    the same circuit and, where used, the grounded conductor
    and all equipment grounding conductors and bonding con-
    ductors shall be contained within the same raceway, auxil-
    iary gutter, cable tray, cablebus assembly, trench, cable, or
    cord, unless otherwise permitted in accordance with
    300.3(B)(1) through (B)(4).

    Leave a comment:


  • jap
    replied
    Not that it matters, but, I'm picturing a wire type grounded and EGC pulled to the J-box, there's just not a wire type Grounded or EGC pulled from the J-box through the nipple into the disconnect.

    JAP>

    Leave a comment:


  • kwired
    replied
    Originally posted by ActionDave View Post

    This is what he said
    That is a part of what he said, I don't believe he is questioning use of raceway for equipment grounding, was just explaining there is no grounding conductor pulled through it, I think the main question was concerning whether there needed to be a grounded conductor in the disconnect and he just wanted to make it clear there was nothing in the raceway except for ungrounded conductors.

    Leave a comment:


  • ActionDave
    replied
    Originally posted by kwired View Post

    think you misunderstood, he has no issue with using raceway as ground, is questioning need to have the grounded conductor brought to the disconnect.....
    This is what he said

    .....is there a code violation in this design? The grounded conductor and grounding conductor will not enter the disconnect.

    Leave a comment:


  • kwired
    replied
    Originally posted by ActionDave View Post
    There is still time to free yourself from the clutches of The Cult of the Green Wire. A metallic raceway is more than up to the task of being an effective fault clearing path.
    think you misunderstood, he has no issue with using raceway as ground, is questioning need to have the grounded conductor brought to the disconnect.

    Even if this circuit utilizes a grounded conductor, there shouldn't be a need to bring it to the disconnect if conductors are entering and then leaving same raceway again (a switch loop so to speak).

    Switches controlling lighting that are on circuits utilizing the grounded conductor do require grounded conductor at the switch or the ability to pull the grounded conductor there if it should ever be needed, which is somewhat newer requirement. Only applies to lighting that utilizes grounded conductor though.

    Leave a comment:


  • infinity
    replied
    Originally posted by ActionDave View Post

    This sounds like a straight 240V load though.
    I don't know the OP said "the grounded conductor and grounding conductor will not enter the disconnect."

    Leave a comment:


  • ActionDave
    replied
    Originally posted by infinity View Post
    I'm leaning towards it being required to be brought thru the nipple with the ungrounded conductors. We had a similar discussion a few years ago:

    https://forums.mikeholt.com/forum/ac...connect-switch
    This sounds like a straight 240V load though.

    Leave a comment:


  • infinity
    replied
    I'm leaning towards it being required to be brought thru the nipple with the ungrounded conductors. We had a similar discussion a few years ago:

    https://forums.mikeholt.com/forum/ac...connect-switch

    Leave a comment:

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