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NM stapled beside furring strips

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    #31
    Originally posted by infinity View Post

    The protection plate is required to be a minimum of 1/16". The exception allows for the plate to be less than 1/16" if it is listed and marked.


    300.4(A) Cables and Raceways Through Wood Members.
    (1) Bored Holes. In both exposed and concealed locations,
    where a cable- or raceway-type wiring method is installed
    through bored holes in joists, rafters, or wood members,
    holes shall be bored so that the edge of the hole is not less
    than 32 mm (1 1 ⁄ 4 in.) from the nearest edge of the wood
    member. Where this distance cannot be maintained, the
    cable or raceway shall be protected from penetration by
    screws or nails by a steel plate(s) or bushing(s), at least
    1.6 mm ( 1 ⁄ 16 in.) thick,
    and of appropriate length and width
    installed to cover the area of the wiring.
    Exception No. 1: Steel plates shall not be required to
    protect rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit,
    rigid nonmetallic conduit, or electrical metallic tubing.
    Exception No. 2: A listed and marked steel plate less than
    1.6 mm ( 1 ⁄ 16 in.) thick
    that provides equal or better protec-
    tion against nail or screw penetration shall be permitted.
    [LIST][/LIST][LIST][*]Quote[*]Flag[*]Like[/LIST]


    Unless there's a code section that explains it more clearly, I, like Coppersmith, would like to know where in above statement it indicates that the cable must be kept 1 1/4" away from the face of the stud.

    If nailing the cable to the side of a furring , you're not going through a wood member or through a bored hole.

    The whole thing about the cable entering an outlet box connector at "not exactly parallel to the framing member for 8 or 12 inches" just seems silly to me.

    JAP>

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by jap View Post

      Unless there's a code section that explains it more clearly, I, like Coppersmith, would like to know where in above statement it indicates that the cable must be kept 1 1/4" away from the face of the stud.

      If nailing the cable to the side of a furring , you're not going through a wood member or through a bored hole.

      The whole thing about the cable entering an outlet box connector at "not exactly parallel to the framing member for 8 or 12 inches" just seems silly to me.

      JAP>
      I agree, yet many still think that if it is secured to the side of the stud it must be 1-1/4 from the face of the stud, when in fact the wording only mentions bored holes. Good design practice is still to keep away from areas more likely to have something penetrate though - but that is good practice not code requirement.
      I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by kwired View Post

        I agree, yet many still think that if it is secured to the side of the stud it must be 1-1/4 from the face of the stud, when in fact the wording only mentions bored holes. Good design practice is still to keep away from areas more likely to have something penetrate though - but that is good practice not code requirement.
        So why are so many defending a rule where that's not actually what it says?

        JAP>

        Comment


          #34
          By the wording, to me, the OP is correct and understood the rule more so than the inspector.

          Unless there's some wording otherwise that I'm not aware of.

          JAP>

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by hbiss View Post

            Apparently he is aware of the 1-1/4" rule. So I'm confused about what he is talking about. Are these the usual 1x furring? [COLOR=#FF0000]Did you just assume that because you only had 3/4" that you could just staple your NM down it and the 1-1/4" rule didn't apply?[/COLOR]

            The 1-1/4" rule allows you to go horizontally away from the edge of the framing member also in order to comply. So in this case that's the only way to do it. You should have stackers and/or Colorado Jims on your truck- use em'.

            -Hal
            That's exactly what I would assume.

            What part of the rule states that you can't ?

            If you have a 1x furring strips which are generally 3/4" thick 2 or 3" wide attached to a block wall, and you're running NM along side that furring strip, how does moving the cable horizontally any distance away from the side of the furring strip make it any more safe?

            It doesn't.

            You don't gain any more than 3/4" of an inch clearance no matter where you move the cable in the void.

            JAP>

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by jap View Post
              By the wording, to me, the OP is correct and understood the rule more so than the inspector.

              Unless there's some wording otherwise that I'm not aware of.

              JAP>
              The OP is not asking about bored holes in furring. Rob introduced 300.4(A)(1) to talk about nail plates. For the OP scenario, his inspector saw a 300.4(D) situation. 300.4(A)(1) does not apply.

              So the "wording" is in 300.4(D).
              Another Al in Minnesota

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by al hildenbrand View Post

                The OP is not asking about bored holes in furring. Rob introduced 300.4(A)(1) to talk about nail plates. For the OP scenario, his inspector saw a 300.4(D) situation. 300.4(A)(1) does not apply.

                So the "wording" is in 300.4(D).
                That's wording I was looking for.

                I agree with the inspector now.

                JAP>

                Comment


                  #38
                  I hesitate to say it, in fear of another chapter in the code--

                  Does the problem go away if the wiring is in metal conduit? (EMT or BX)

                  It's either that or surface-mounted panduit or wiremold...

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by PaulMmn View Post
                    I hesitate to say it, in fear of another chapter in the code--

                    Does the problem go away if the wiring is in metal conduit? (EMT or BX)

                    It's either that or surface-mounted panduit or wiremold...
                    I'd bet it does, .

                    JAP>

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by PaulMmn View Post
                      I hesitate to say it, in fear of another chapter in the code--

                      Does the problem go away if the wiring is in metal conduit? (EMT or BX)

                      It's either that or surface-mounted panduit or wiremold...
                      Armored Cable, AC, has to be protected like NM, (2017 NEC 320.17).

                      EMT is safe, with exception of "severe" physical damage, therefore Article 358 does not invoke 300.4.

                      Edit to add: MC has to be installed per 300.4 (2017 NEC 330.17).
                      Another Al in Minnesota

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by al hildenbrand View Post

                        The OP is not asking about bored holes in furring. Rob introduced 300.4(A)(1) to talk about nail plates. For the OP scenario, his inspector saw a 300.4(D) situation. 300.4(A)(1) does not apply.

                        So the "wording" is in 300.4(D).
                        Yes if you go back to my original post the question and answer with the code reference was what it meant when the nail plate was referred to as "marked".
                        Rob

                        Moderator

                        All responses based on the 2017 NEC unless otherwise noted

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by jap View Post

                          That's wording I was looking for.

                          I agree with the inspector now.

                          JAP>
                          same here.
                          I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by PaulMmn View Post
                            I hesitate to say it, in fear of another chapter in the code--

                            Does the problem go away if the wiring is in metal conduit? (EMT or BX)

                            It's either that or surface-mounted panduit or wiremold...
                            EMT doesn't need nail plates, see the exceptions in 300.4 sections mentioned. That said I have seen drywall screws penetrate EMT a few different times, so I still try to avoid placing it too close to the stud when possible if it is going to be close to the finish covering.
                            I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Colorado Jims are easier to screw on and fasten than stapling to the edge of a furring strip anyway.
                              Master Electrician
                              Electrical Contractor
                              Richmond, VA

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Like I said above, I normally use nail-on standoffs on furring. Not because I thought I was required to, but just because I expect the drywallers to be incompetent. My main complaint was the inspector was forcing me to fix existing work. I did so and passed a re-inspection. There are definitely inconsistencies in how NM wiring is handled in the NEC.

                                https://www.walmart.com/ip/3M-SIFS-1...K250/148235721
                                Last edited by Coppersmith; 08-21-19, 08:36 PM.

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