Hospital waiting rooms

[jcleavit]

I have a question regarding 517.13 (A). In the 2017 Code, waiting rooms are now classified as "Support (Category 4) Space". In 517.13 (A), it states that all wiring methods in patient care areas need to be wired basically in emt with a redundant ground (green wire), or it needs to be run in HCF MC cable. It was always my understanding that areas such as waiting rooms did not need to be wired that way. that you could use PVC underground conduit, standard MC, etc.. Am I missing something or is the new support area definition that showed up in 2017 changing it so that I need to have the redundant ground path?

 

[roger]

A Support Space can actually be any room in a catastrophic event and it doesn't require all rooms be wired as Patient Care Spaces. 517.10(B)(1) covers this.

Roger

 

[jcleavit]

A Support Space can actually be any room in a catastrophic event and it doesn't require all rooms be wired as Patient Care Spaces. 517.10(B)(1) covers this.

Roger

So looking at 517.10 (B)(1), it talks about how Part II does not cover waiting rooms in clinics and outpatient facilities. But it does not mention waiting rooms in an inpatient facility. I guess that is the part where it gets confusing for me.

 

[roger]

A waiting room still doesn't meet the definition of Patient Care Space in any health care facility and a Support Space doesn't not have to meet the requirement either. Staff may start prepping or stabilizing a patient in any room if needed.

Roger

 

[jcleavit]

A waiting room still doesn't meet the definition of Patient Care Space in any health care facility and a Support Space doesn't not have to meet the requirement either. Staff may start prepping or stabilizing a patient in any room if needed.

Roger

But that is the point of my original question. In 2017 NEC, there is a new category under the Patient Care Spaces definition called Support (Category 4) Space. And the informational note specifically references waiting rooms. I get what you are saying. I don't think they should include waiting rooms as a patient care space. But from what I can tell, as of 2017, they did.

 

[roger]

I.N.'s are not code mandates, they're just example / suggestion commentary, nothing more. Once again, any space, even outside an EM entrance could possibly be used as a Support Space.

Roger

 

[jcleavit]

I understand I.N.'s are not "Code". But they are an interpretation of the code. So obviously, someone is interpreting a waiting room as a Category 4 patient space. So, in your opinion, when IS a waiting room a Support Space, and when is it not? The only thing I can think of is possibly in the hospitals disaster plan, if it specifies that the waiting room be used for patient care in certain disasters, then it is a Support Space. And if it is not included in the disaster plan, then it is not? Not trying to be stubborn or argumentative. But here's where my chain of thinking keeps going:

517.12-517.13 say that the redundant grounding is required in Patient Care Spaces.

517.10 (B)(1) says that Part II does not apply to ".......waiting rooms, and the like in clinics, medical and dental offices, and outpatient facilities (which I would say a 24 hr inpatient facility is none of these things.

So that leads me to the definition of what a Patient Care Area actually is. A Category 4 space, in the opinion of the someone the NFPA trusts(which I'm sure they approve all Informational Notes that are published in their codebooks), a waiting room either can or should be considered a Category 4 space. I am looking for a definitive answer to what would either classify it as a Category 4 Patient Care Space , or not. Where is the line in the sand, so to speak?

 

[roger]

So if the I.N. included "electrical closets" and "mop storage rooms" (which in a disaster could be the case) you would wire them to meet 517.13 requirements?

I don't have access to NFPA 99 at the moment but it may help if you look up the referenced sections and check the Public Inputs for the 2017 NEC

Roger

 

[packersparky]

I agree with jcleavit. 517.13(A) states that all branch circuits in "patient care spaces" shall use a "metal raceway system, metallic cable armor, or sheath assembly shall itself qualify as an equipment grounding conductor....".

The definition of "patient care space" includes four categories. All of the categories are considered "patient care spaces" and the branch circuits would have to be installed in accordance with 517.13(A). IMHO.

I agree that it would not apply to the occupancies listed in 517.10(B), but it would apply to a hospital, for instance.

 

[jcleavit]

I agree with jcleavit. 517.13(A) states that all branch circuits in "patient care spaces" shall use a "metal raceway system, metallic cable armor, or sheath assembly shall itself qualify as an equipment grounding conductor....".

The definition of "patient care space" includes four categories. All of the categories are considered "patient care spaces" and the branch circuits would have to be installed in accordance with 517.13(A). IMHO.

I agree that it would not apply to the occupancies listed in 517.10(B), but it would apply to a hospital, for instance.

So would you ALWAYS consider a waiting room in a hospital a Category 4 Space? If not, when should or shouldn't I?

 

[roger]

Go back to the first I.N. after Patient Care Space to find your answer. With that said, if you are going to subscribe to a waiting room being a Patient Care Space you will need to include the other areas in the I.N. for Support Spaces, such as the rooms I mentioned in post #8, they are "utility rooms".

If this is a new hospital there should not be a real issue anyway just use metallic wiring methods in the bid and installation. If it's existing let it be.

Roger

 

[jcleavit]

Go back to the first I.N. after Patient Care Space to find your answer. With that said, if you are going to subscribe to a waiting room being a Patient Care Space you will need to include the other areas in the I.N. for Support Spaces, such as the rooms I mentioned in post #8, they are "utility rooms".

If this is a new hospital there should not be a real issue anyway just use metallic wiring methods in the bid and installation. If it's existing let it be.

Roger

Finally. Haha. That answers my question. I did not notice that I.N. no. 1 after patient care space. "Governing body" sets the precedent for what gray areas are considered patient care. Thanks for pointing me that direction. I think the way I'm going to approach this is to go to my facilities disaster plan and see which rooms are going to be used as patient rooms in the event of a disaster and leave it at that. Thanks.

 

[roger]

:thumbsup:

Roger