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Covered under NEC

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    Covered under NEC

    I have brand new building which I am asked to review plans for using NEC. The new building is going to be Power Company's new subtation. However the drawings include new empty building power coming into the building with multiple feeders into switchgear and panelboards to power lights, receptacles for empty rooms that is going to have reactors and batteries for power generation.

    I am confuse as to NEC would apply. Does the project fall under scope and review of NEC?

    #2
    Its very clearly laid out in section 90.2
    Moderator-Washington State
    Ancora Imparo

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      #3
      Okay I think I maybe see it. Is it 90.2(A)(4) installation by the electric utility that is not integral part of substation? Would just power to light and receptacle be integral part of substation? Am I missing something?

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        #4
        No takers? Following article says something else to Post #2.

        http://www.electrician2.com/utility.htm

        Can anyone who has seen, encountered or done something like post #1 question shed some light or opinion? 90.2 is just not clear. Please.

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          #5
          The building that the power company builds must be under the rules of the NEC but the wiring from their stations to the delivery point is their business and their rules.
          They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
          She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
          I can't help it if I'm lucky

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            #6
            Originally posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
            The building that the power company builds must be under the rules of the NEC but the wiring from their stations to the delivery point is their business and their rules.
            New substation building with roof and rooms that power company is building will have inside the building reactors to generate power, transmit, and distribute power. The reactors and how they distribute energy installation would NOT fall under NEC.

            However, the new substation building outside conductors feeding into building panelboards to power building loads only i.e. power to building hvac, lights, and receptacles 120V single phase and building fire pump install would fall under rules of NEC. Correct?

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              #7
              Originally posted by hhsting View Post



              However, the new substation building outside conductors feeding into building panelboards to power building loads only i.e. power to building hvac, lights, and receptacles 120V single phase and building fire pump install would fall under rules of NEC. Correct?
              Where is the service point?

              Roger

              Moderator

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                #8
                Originally posted by hhsting View Post

                New substation building with roof and rooms that power company is building will have inside the building reactors to generate power, transmit, and distribute power. The reactors and how they distribute energy installation would NOT fall under NEC.

                However, the new substation building outside conductors feeding into building panelboards to power building loads only i.e. power to building hvac, lights, and receptacles 120V single phase and building fire pump install would fall under rules of NEC. Correct?
                Basically yes.. If I am reading you correctly. It really depends where the power company responsibility ends. I assume there is a transformer, probably no meter, so as Roger stated it would depend on where the service starts.
                They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
                She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
                I can't help it if I'm lucky

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by hhsting View Post


                  However, the new substation building outside conductors feeding into building panelboards to power building loads only i.e. power to building hvac, lights, and receptacles 120V single phase and building fire pump install would fall under rules of NEC. Correct?
                  Not clear on this building, but it seems like it would fall under the scope of the NEC this graphic is how Mike Holt explains it
                  Moderator-Washington State
                  Ancora Imparo

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by tom baker View Post

                    Not clear on this building, but it seems like it would fall under the scope of the NEC this graphic is how Mike Holt explains it
                    Tom, what's shown in the graphic is not in question, the OP is asking about underground conductors serving the building. Even in installations outside of a sub station many times the underground before the service point belongs to the POCO.

                    Roger
                    Moderator

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                      #11
                      Service point is not shown on plans but will get back once I know where it is. The building built by power company inside is GIS 230kv substation. Building is an installation regulated by utility commission called State of MD Public Service Utility Commision and the building is owned by utility company. Has mutiple feeders feeding the building from essential and non essential feeder breakers panelboards. There is no meter(s) for building and essential and non essential panels are fed from service switchboards and they are fed from 13.2kv to 480/277V transformers.
                      Last edited by hhsting; 11-12-19, 06:08 PM.

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                        #12
                        If anything it is not clear if the NEC applies to the entire generating plant or substation or just to general lighting, HVAC and other items that are common in many facilities.

                        Wind generation facilities that have gone up around here have been permitted and inspected from my understanding. Yes they are power generation facilities but State Electric Division apparently decided they are not the same kind of operation as a POCO. Don't know that I agree with that reasoning but it is what it is. For one thing these are facilities that are operated by qualified individuals, and have no access from untrained people pretty much ever. POCO generation facilities and substations are like that in general also. The business offices and any public access areas belonging to POCO's are subject to NEC. Army Corps of Engineer power generation plants on the Missouri river system have public access to the power plants, only limited areas for the most part and they give tours of how the facility works. Some areas you can only look through glass to see what is going on - those visitor areas would be subject to NEC. Yet at same time those facilities are Federal facilities and would be exempt from State AHJ jurisdiction here anyway. They still may follow NEC pretty closely in visitor areas though as their own rule.
                        I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

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                          #13
                          Post #9 photo also attached this post shows in blue warehouse, office building and in red generating plant. I am wondering lets say generating plant wording is replaced by utility substation inside building would it be still red or blue? Would not the building be integral part of the substation and not covered including its lights and power just like generating plant building or not? I am aware of 90.2(A) but confused by wording.
                          Attached Files
                          Last edited by hhsting; 11-15-19, 09:40 PM.

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by hhsting View Post
                            Post #9 photo also attached this post shows in blue warehouse, office building and in red generating plant. I am wondering lets say generating plant wording is replaced by utility substation inside building would it be still red or blue? Would not the building be integral part of the substation and not covered including its lights and power just like generating plant building or not? I am aware of 90.2(A) but confused by wording.
                            The picture is from Mike Holt and is used to help illustrate his interpretation of what code says.

                            What he has there most of us will agree with, but now say we have offices or warehouse and generating plant all under one roof? I still think the offices and warehouse fall under NEC and the generating plant does not, where do you draw the between them maybe is a little blurry at times though.

                            I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by kwired View Post

                              The picture is from Mike Holt and is used to help illustrate his interpretation of what code says.

                              What he has there most of us will agree with, but now say we have offices or warehouse and generating plant all under one roof? I still think the offices and warehouse fall under NEC and the generating plant does not, where do you draw the between them maybe is a little blurry at times though.
                              Lets just say in the generating plant building post #9 their is no offices or warehouse. Its just generating plant building. Even then the generating plant building has to have lights, receptacles, HVAC for the building which are building loads. However according to post #9 attachment shows those are not covered by the NEC since whole generating plant building is red. According to you those building loads should be NEC covered but post #9 attachment says its not. Why? Question is it integral part of generating plant building? What does integral part of 90.2(A) mean anyways essential to operation or contained within?
                              Last edited by hhsting; Yesterday, 01:18 PM.

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