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    kitchen wall receptacle

    I'm design an apartment kitchen. South wall of kitchen has fridge, range, and all the countertops. Counter runs up against east wall, and near it's end has a receptacle a few inches above it.

    To the north, separated from the counter front by 3'-5", is the kitchen peninsula. The peninsula has a receptacle mounted on the wall just above it.

    My question is, is a receptacle required on the wall between the peninsula and counter?

    At first glance it is required by the general provisions of 210.52.A and 210.52.A.2.1. But, if I am reading it correctly, 210.52 allows the countertop and peninsula receptacles to be counted as being within 6' feet horizontally from any given point along the unbroken wall between counter and peninsula.

    This seems pretty reasonable to me both with my interpretation of code and in a practical sense - there's not much that would get plugged into a receptacle located on the wall between the cabinetry, and if something WAS to need plugged in, its cord should reach to the receptacles on either side.

    Thoughts?

    #2
    I dont think any of us can follow what your saying.Wall space needs to have outlets .
    Last edited by Jim W in Tampa; 08-09-06, 05:55 AM.
    member of the Christine car club

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      #3
      I think i see the question.There is a wall space next to the counter top and the counter top receptacle is within 6 ft of the opening.So can it be used to satisfy spacing requirements.Yes.

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        #4
        Originally posted by allenwayne
        There is a wall space next to the counter top and the counter top receptacle is within 6 ft of the opening. So can it be used to satisfy spacing requirements. Yes.

        I do not agree. Instead, I agree with Jim.

        Originally posted by Jim W in Tampa
        Wall space needs to have outlets .


        Kitchens are on the list of rooms, as shown in 210.52, that need receptacles in wall spaces. If you have a wall space wider than two feet, it needs a receptacle. The fact that there is a receptacle within reach of the wall space does not matter. Nor does it matter that the owner is unlikely to use that particular receptacle. The wall space itself needs a receptacle.

        Charles E. Beck, P.E., Seattle
        Comments based on 2017 NEC unless otherwise noted.

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          #5
          I agree with Charlie and Jim. I can't follow your question, but wall space needs receptacle. And needs receptacle within that wall space. (This last sentence is important. George almost had me convinced otherwise a few years ago.)
          Formerly J Erickson as username.

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            #6
            I should have read the OP better.I didn`t realize that there is a wall space in front of the cabinet 3`5" .Then the peninsular started and that was the wall in question.Yes it does require a receptacle being 24"+.

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              #7
              I'm not seeing the installation in question either. I would offer the following statement as well:

              There is a difference between "wall space" and "counter wall space". You must treat them as independent entities for code-logic reasons I can't recall at the moment.

              John's piqued my curiousity, I'm searching the scrolls to find the related thread. All I remember is I backed the wrong horse (I said that the counter receptacle could serve wall space off the countertop for six feet), and was shown the error of my ways. I can't remember more than that at the moment.

              I shall return.

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                #8
                George are you saying that after a counter top SA circuit that you can only feed a wall receptacle ,lets say in a nook area for only 6 FT. ????

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                  #9
                  George,

                  I was refering to a thread maybe a year ago about the small wall space behind a door in a bedroom. I think you started it. The question was whether a receptacle on a nearby wall space could satisfy that small wall space. Consensus was that it couldn't, as receptacle needs to also be within the wall space. I don't know that I'm explaining it well, but I'm sure you'll recall it. You had me convinced, until Mike (I think) made light dawn on marble head.

                  John
                  Formerly J Erickson as username.

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                    #10
                    John, I remember it well. I just can't find the sucker, and it's bugging me.

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                      #11
                      I remember it too. The issue turned on whether you could take credit for the distance, measured diagonally across the floor, from one wall to another wall.
                      Charles E. Beck, P.E., Seattle
                      Comments based on 2017 NEC unless otherwise noted.

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                        #12
                        George et al, I disagree. I think code allows a counter receptacle to cover non-counter areas.

                        210.52.A.1: "Receptacles shall be installed so that no point measured horizontally along the floor line in any wall space is more than 6 ft from a receptacle outlet."

                        210.52: "Receptacle outlets required by this section shall be in addition to any receptacle that is part of a luminaire or appliance, located within cabinets or cupboards, or located more than 5 1/2 ft above the floor."

                        They way I read it, the 3 1/2 ft wall space in my example is completely covered by the above-counter receptacle, provided said receptacle is less than 5 1/2 ft above the floor.

                        The area behind a door that one of you brought up in a previous thread...that is very interesting indeed. I'd like to see the thread!

                        I have additional receptacle questions:
                        - How about under stairs in a two-story apartment unit - does the floor line begin at the bottom of the back of the stairs? Would a receptacle be required in an area you'd have to crawl to get to? I think it is reasonable to classify this as storage/crawl space.
                        - How about at the bottom landing of stairs, assuming the landing is in a corner? I see this as hallway space, intended for the same use as someone coming into the front hallway - primarily for passage from one area into another.

                        How do you guys handle these areas?

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                          #13
                          charlie b: if the issue hinged on measuring diagonally across the floor it is obviously wrong - the code requires measuring horizontally along the floor line. I don't mind looking for ways to reduce cost, but that bird don't fly.

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by malachi constant
                            The area behind a door that one of you brought up in a previous thread...that is very interesting indeed. I'd like to see the thread!
                            You better look at it, because it was truly a labor of love finding this SOB.

                            Here it is, in it's vintage setting.

                            George smoking crack, at his best.

                            Edit: Click here for the skip to the chase.
                            Last edited by George Stolz; 08-10-06, 12:25 PM.

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                              #15
                              Very impressive George. You were darn well incoherent for a couple posts there.

                              I think you cracked when the thread was parsed like this:
                              Receptacles shall be installed ... so that no point ... measured horizontally along the floor line in any wall space ... is more than 6 ft from a receptacle outlet.

                              Whereas I parse the thread like this:
                              Receptacles shall be installed ... so that no point ... in any wall space ... measured horizontally along the floor line ... is more than 6 ft from a receptacle outlet.

                              The rules of both logic and english grammar certainly allow this parsing. A clarification is needed from the NEC, that's for sure.

                              Now for practical purposes - how I think a clarification should be approached - is doorways SHOULD count as barriers through which the wall space is broken and extension (or appliance) cords should not have to cross. But a kitchen peninsula should not count as such a barrier - it is not unsafe to put a table between kitchen counter and kitchen peninsula, set a lamp or answering machine on this table, and plug it into an above-counter receptacle less than six feet away. Not unsafe at all.

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