Appliance Garage

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JES2727

Senior Member
Location
NJ
covered

covered

volt102 said:
John,

I think that you need to bold one more word.

210.52(B)(1) Receptacle Outlets Served. In the kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling unit, the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all wall and floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A), all countertop outlets covered by 210.52(C), and receptacle outlets for refrigeration equipment.

Covered, or Uncovered!

Jim
New Hampshire


Hi Jim,
It's a wall receptacle in a dining room of a dwelling unit. It's covered. Not required, but it is covered.


John
 

volt102

Senior Member
Location
New Hampshire
JES2727 said:
Hi Jim,
It's a wall receptacle in a dining room of a dwelling unit. It's covered. Not required, but it is covered.


John


I must be not reading some code article right, or not at all. How is it covered?
Article please....

Jim
New Hampshire
 

Rockyd

Senior Member
Location
Nevada
Occupation
Retired after 40 years as an electrician.
The 24" wall space is out the window in regard to kitchen definitions of spaces required to be served by the SABC. 210.52(C)(1) calls the location Wall Counter Space A receptacle outlet shall be installed at each wall counter space that is 300mm (12") or wider.

Jump over to 210.52(C)(5) makes a point out of the fact that the appliance garage normally kills the space as readily accessible. So it appears to read anything outside of the built-in garage falls into 12" or greater counter space as defined in 210.52(C)(1). If that's not true, then why is the garage space given the same rights as a fridge? You wouldn't pull the fridge out of it's dedicated space, to gain access to a receptacle, nor would you drag all the stuff in the garage out to look for a receptacle. You would be looking to plug into that readily accessible receptacle on it's own 12" or greater counter space!
 
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charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
allenwayne said:
Charlie a sink doesn`t take up all the counter top depth either,nor does a cook top.
That is why I said "most, if not all." There is never (well, hardly ever) enough room between the front edge of the sink and the front edge of the counter to place a toaster or other appliance.
allenwayne said:
Many appliance garages take up the same depth as these items.
I said before that I have never seen one of these things installed. But I don't think an appliance garage would be of any use, if you can't slide the appliance out of the garage and onto the counter surface in front of the garage.
 

allenwayne

Senior Member
Charlie it`s a design issue.It depends on where on the counter top the appliance garage is.If on a straight cabinet most are 12 ins deep,same as the uppers they are under.If in a corner again a design issue.is it a 45 corner or a 90 corner on the counter top will be a factor.Will determine how much space will be afforded.

I look at appliance GARAGES like this......They are used to store an appliance and not use it within it.They create a break in the usuable countertop same as a cook top etc.. I have seen them built into pillars extending from the upper cabinets.If you wanted to use them within the appliance garage itself youd have to be Houdini.

They are same as a cabinet a place to store small appliances instead of using that pretty granite as a place to park that toater,blender etc.....

Going back to the original train of thought.Are they required to have a receptacle IMO,NO !!!!! If they do have a receptacle and they don`t actually serve the actual counter top wall area do they have to be GFCI protected ???? Well this is a matter of opinion.Since the NEC does not have a definitve answer on this.We can debate this for 5,000 posts and will still come up with the same answer.The NEC as it stands does not adress this issue and it would up to the EC and the AHJ to figure it out on an situation as is basis.

Do I put a receptacle within the confines of the appliance garage ??? Always,are they used rarely.Since on a counter top I wire them into the GFCI circuit.For convience.only.But what I do as a norm is not the issue.Is it required to be there and gfci protected is the question.As far as I have seen there has been nothing that has been proven that #1 They HAVE to be there and #2 that if there they HAVE to be gfci protected.

Lets change the subject one more time.Lets take a island that contains a sink a d/w , a disposal and countertop space.Any receptacles ON the counter top HAVE to be gfci protected.Now this same island faces a nook area and has usable wall receptacles spaced accordingly.Before 02 cycle these receptacles if within 6 ft of the sink HAD to be gfci protected.But after 02 cycle they are not within 6 ft. of a wet bar then the gfci requirement went away for these same receptacles.

We are like electrical lawyers,we debate and offer conjecture and opinions but the bottom line is does the NEC actually address the particular issue in depth ,with a definitive answer ??? In most cases yes,but in this case NO !!!!! Opinions are like well we all know that one.We all have one just some are bigger :)
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
If that garage has a receptacle we must assume an appliance will be pluged into it.It then will be pulled out onto the COUNTER SURFACE to be used.To me that outlet serves the counter top.Gfci required.If the garage has no outlet then no problem as its simply storage.
 
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