Habitable Rooms - Lighting Outlet

[roger]

roger

i am not saying i would red tag anything, i am saying if the building code requires illumination at certain locations, (i do not have my IRC at home to check), what would be the point of blanking off boxes and scheduling a final inspection

And I do agree with you that there would be no point to blanking the outlets if there is a building code in place in the area that requires fixtures, but not all areas have such a code in place, so we are actually in agreement.

Roger

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Many home buyers prefer to get fixtures on there own or from a lighting supply house

 

[mpd]

roger

I agree it would all depend on the adopted building code, and I also agree with you it is not an electrical inspectors call

 

[amptech]

I think the saying is, "If a tree falls in a forest and lands on a mime, does anybody care?"

 

[LarryFine]

I think the saying is, "If a tree falls in a forest and lands on a mime, does anybody care?"

Huh? What?

 

[amptech]

Larry, ask Charlie.

 

[mayjong]

I don't think I have to show you it works.

We have done many jobs leaving blank plates in place of future dinning room fixtures.

i believe you do (at least around here) all i have to do is write
"provide evidence of proper installation of wiring" on my little slip and hand it to you. the burden of proof is not on me to prove it DOES NOT work, it's on you to prove it DOES.
leaving blanks on some fixtures might be o-k with some inspectors, but i assure you, it's not o-k with all inspectors.
i'll tell you what, why even test any fixtures or outlets? after all "i saw the the wiring at rough and it looked o-k then"... kinda seems silly , doesn't it? why even have an inspector do a final inspection then?
semantics aside, i don't care whos "responsibility" it is to provide a test of these circuits, but somebody's gonna do it before i sign my name on a final.

 

[charlie b]

Larry, ask Charlie.

I think my version (not original, I will admit) was funnier. :smile:

 

[pete m.]

Mayjong,

not challenging or arguing with you but on a final inspection do you require "evidence" of correct wiring for the dishwasher, condensing unit, direct wired wall mount oven, direct wired electric cooktop, jacuzzi tub motor, etc... Do you physically test each of these appliances to assure proper wiring?

The point I'm attempting to make is that the NEC requires that wiring be free from shorts and ground faults (110.7). Do you remove all light fixtures that are installed on a final to assure that they are wired correctly or do you assume that they are because when you flipped the switch they came on?

If the NEC requierd illumination for these rooms it would be a different story but the current language only requires that the means for attachment of a light (lighting outlet) be provided.

We make many assumptions on every inspection that we perform. Ultimately we place a lot of faith in the installing electrician for their proffesionalism.


Pete

 

[LarryFine]

i believe you do (at least around here) all i have to do is write "provide evidence of proper installation of wiring" on my little slip and hand it to you. the burden of proof is not on me to prove it DOES NOT work, it's on you to prove it DOES.

So how do you enforce this in jurisdictions where there is no power until after final inspection?

 

[mayjong]

So how do you enforce this in jurisdictions where there is no power until after final inspection?

that i don't know, and it seems a little backwards to me...
if there is no power, how do we know any electrical fixture works? this is the first i've heard of this (i'm in California) - it just doesn't make sense (to me) no testing of smoke detectors/gfci/afci/anything?!? WOW!
btw-
to answer others, i've worked in 4 california jurisdictions and every one of them did this. and yes, we do turn on dishwashers/garbage disposals/etc at final (not to test the appliance, to test the circuit) we also run water, flush toilets. ect....
this brings up another point, no testing of hot water?!? ("on demand" water heaters) or cooktops?!?! or HVAC?!? i'm wondering how jurisdictions get around the requirements for cooking/heating facilities in a dwelling....
this would explain alot of the differences of opinion on what is needed for a "final" on this board...

 

[mayjong]

Mayjong,



The point I'm attempting to make is that the NEC requires that wiring be free from shorts and ground faults (110.7). Do you remove all light fixtures that are installed on a final to assure that they are wired correctly or do you assume that they are because when you flipped the switch they came on?

Pete

also- i agree on this. but it is impossible to tell if wiring is free of shorts and faults if there is a blank cover on it. if there is nothing to turn on, there is no way to test (that's my point)

 

[bikeindy]

also- i agree on this. but it is impossible to tell if wiring is free of shorts and faults if there is a blank cover on it. if there is nothing to turn on, there is no way to test (that's my point)

Ever heard of a meter? why do you need a light bulb?

 

[roger]

Mayjong, it seems to me that the warranty will cover your concerns as to whether the wiring will work or not.

I don't think "Punch List and Warranty Items" should be an inspectors job unless they have a lot of idle time on their hands.

Roger

 

[mpd]

roger

that all sounds good, but when the new homeowner has complaints and they get the run around from the warranty company and contractor, they call the inspection office

 

[pete m.]

roger

that all sounds good, but when the new homeowner has complaints and they get the run around from the warranty company and contractor, they call the inspection office

An inspection is only to verify that adopted codes and standards have been followed to the best of the inspectors ability to do so. An inspection cannot guarantee that the utilization equipment will "perform" as intended or with the desired result.

I concurr that the owner will sometimes call the inspector and ask why something doesn't work as they believe that it should but I think that is partly because, for the most part, they don't understand what the inspectors duties are.

 

[allenwayne]

We have finals without power as Jim has stated, the inspectors job is to ensure that the min. NEC requirements have been met.IE: required gfci receptacles and that would be 4 in the home., spacing requirements, breaker rating to wire size and data plates. contamination of panel + meter base.No open boxes etc.

Where in the NEC does it say the install has to actually work ???? That becomes a warranty issue.Just my 2 cents.

 

[mark henderson]

Hey only 233 more post to hit the other threads amount of posts..
It seems there is a lot of interpretation on this. I think the fan only is acceptable. But if the AHJ said we need a light there I would probably just put in the light Then charge the builder for a plan error.

Mark

 

[M. D.]

I think it a little odd that an electrical inspector inspects with out electricity being present.:roll: I guess that is why we, In The Peoples Republic of Massachusetts, refer to them as Inspectors of wires :grin:

 

[mark henderson]

I think it a little odd that an electrical inspector inspects with out electricity being present.:roll: I guess that is why we, In The Peoples Republic of Massachusetts, refer to them as Inspectors of wires :grin:

You know that makes me think i recall a very tough inspector, he allways failed you for something. (you probally have ran acrooss this type) I had a house on for inspection so I personally went through it and got it all tightened up. He went through that house completly found nothing but yet he failed me because there was a crooked GFI sticker:-? called it workmanship. I have not yet seen an inspector say pull out a joint and take off the wirenut to see if maybe the wires are makeing a good connection. maybe that would be a good idea. But no a crooked GFI sticker.

Mark