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    Whirlpool tub bond lug

    I'm trying to determine what an electrician should connect to the bonding lug on a whirpool tub motor when all of the water piping and jetting piping is plastic. My guy told me that he has been running a bonding wire back to the panel in this instance.
    My understanding is the bonding lug is to bring the motor and adjacent metal piping to same potential.

    #2
    Originally posted by gaelectric
    I'm trying to determine what an electrician should connect to the bonding lug on a whirpool tub motor when all of the water piping and jetting piping is plastic. My guy told me that he has been running a bonding wire back to the panel in this instance.
    My understanding is the bonding lug is to bring the motor and adjacent metal piping to same potential.
    680.74 Bonding
    All metal piping systems and all grounded metal parts in contact with the circulating water shall be bonded together using a copper bonding jumper, insulated, covered, or bare, not smaller than 8 AWG solid.

    Only metal piping systems and grounded metal parts are required to be bonded. If you don't have any of these then this will not apply to you.

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      #3
      Yeah. That is what I was telling my electrician. He was trying to be thorough and cover his posterior with inspector I guess.

      Thank you for the input.

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        #4
        most tubs I've wired says in the instructions to run the #8 solid wire, and those tubs are all made with plastic pipe. I'd check the instalation manual of the tub.

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          #5
          most tubs I've wired says in the instructions to run the #8 solid wire, and those tubs are all made with plastic pipe. I'd check the instalation manual of the tub.
          Where do the installation instructions tell you to run the #8 too? If I have no metal piping system then I don't have anything to bond together.

          Again 680.74 requires "All metal piping systems and all grounded metal parts in contact with the circulating water" to be bonded together with a #8 AWG wire. This section does not require that the #8 wire be brought to any panel of any kind.

          Chris

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            #6
            I would look real close at the installation instructions
            check out pages 18 & 19 notice it is pvc piping yet they want , it seems 2 # 8s run and they mention the lug.

            http://www.jacuzzi.com/pdf/K339.PDF
            [COLOR=black][COLOR=black]"America will never be destroyed from the outside.
            If we falter and lose our freedoms,
            it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
            [/COLOR][/COLOR]
            Abraham Lincoln

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              #7
              Originally posted by M. D.
              I would look real close at the installation instructions
              check out pages 18 & 19 notice it is pvc piping yet they want , it seems 2 # 8s run and they mention the lug.

              http://www.jacuzzi.com/pdf/K339.PDF
              M.D. These instructions were written without knowledge. The requirement of 2 #8 bonding wires, 1 for the heater and 1 for the tub motor just shows they have no idea what they are doing. In an inground pool you only need one bonding wire and it does not have to go back to the panel. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
              They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
              She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
              I can't help it if I'm lucky

              Comment


                #8
                is there any copper in the bath (sink supply) take to there

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by donselectric
                  is there any copper in the bath (sink supply) take to there
                  The fact is the NEC does not require a bond on the motor unless the piping system is metal. Almost all tubs are plastic. No bond is required. The idea is to bond the pump to the metal water piping if there is one.

                  The key words in art. 680.74 are bonded together ,not to the panel or other water pipes.
                  They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
                  She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
                  I can't help it if I'm lucky

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Dennis Alwon
                    M.D. These instructions were written without knowledge. The requirement of 2 #8 bonding wires, 1 for the heater and 1 for the tub motor just shows they have no idea what they are doing. In an inground pool you only need one bonding wire and it does not have to go back to the panel. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

                    Yup,.. that may be but,.. 110.3(b) Installation and Use ; Listed or labeled equipment [COLOR="red"]shall[/COLOR] be installed and used in accordance with [COLOR="Red"]any[/COLOR] instructions included in the listing or labeling.

                    This leaves little wiggle room in my opinion,.. the use of the word "shall" indicates an action that is specifically required , regarless of the knowledge with which they were written they are to be followed.

                    These seem to have been written 3/06.
                    [COLOR=black][COLOR=black]"America will never be destroyed from the outside.
                    If we falter and lose our freedoms,
                    it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
                    [/COLOR][/COLOR]
                    Abraham Lincoln

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Dennis Alwon
                      M.D. These instructions were written without knowledge. The requirement of 2 #8 bonding wires, 1 for the heater and 1 for the tub motor just shows they have no idea what they are doing. In an inground pool you only need one bonding wire and it does not have to go back to the panel. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
                      Well said Dennis.

                      I agree that there is a rampant misunderstanding of the bonding requirements of 680.74. The purpose of bonding as required in 680.74 is to equilize any potential between any metal piping system and any grounded metal equipment in direct contact with the circulating water. Not to provide a second EGC, which is what you would be doing if you ran a #8 copper wire from the motor to a panel. The motor is already grounded and bonded via the EGC that is run with the branch-circuit feeding the tub.

                      Chris

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by installation instructions
                        With a #8 solid copper wire, bond the heater to the house electrical panel or approved local bond. A bonding lug is
                        provided on the heater. With another #8 solid copper wire, bond the pump/motor to the house electrical panel or
                        approved local bond. A bonding lug is provided on the pump/motor.
                        This is not what the bonding lug on the motor is to be used for. If I did have a metal piping system then the #8 wire should be run from the motor to the piping system and used to bond the two of them together. If I don't have a metal piping system then I just leave the lug alone because there is nothing to bond together according to section 680.74.

                        Chris

                        (Editted to add that the quote comes from the installation instructions provided in the link that M.D. provided)

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Did you guys notice this part:
                          With a #8 solid copper wire, bond the heater to the house electrical panel or approved local bond. A bonding lug is provided on the heater.

                          With another #8 solid copper wire, bond the pump/motor to the house electrical panel or approved local bond. A bonding lug is provided on the pump/motor.
                          The heaters are typically metal:

                          You can see the lug on the bottom left.

                          (EDIT ~ This is the complete unit)

                          Would this heater be considered a "piping system" as defined by 680.74?


                          In the case of the motor...aren't these motors of the double-insulated variety?

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                            #14
                            I haven't read the instructions for bonding these guys but I do know that I have run a #8 solid from the lug back to the panel. Maybe it is to bond the metal parts of the tub together like the fixtures or something?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              hydro

                              THANK YOU! THANK YOU! M.D.,
                              This topic has been discussed often on the forum. Many moons ago I stated that in my inspections I had seen manufacturer's instructions that required a #8 from the bond lug (motor and/or heater) to the electrical panel. I was challenged, chastized, etc. and have been looking for the rare instruction sheet that shows this requirement. Thanks to you my hunt is over :-) .
                              I agree that the NEC may not require this as such, but as you stated, 110.3 says "install in accordance with the instructions included in the listing a labeling". This may start a valid argument with some of the leagl eagles here, but in the UL white book, Hydrotubs (HCHX) states the equipment is listed in accordance with the installation instructions.
                              Again, it is not without argument, but if the unit is listed to be installed as the directions indicate, and if the directions call for such ground, then, I believe there is reasoning for the inspector to require the ground. The instructins calling for such an installation may be rare, but it might be prudent to have the means available duruing rough-in in the event it is needed at final. Since we know the requiremnt exists with some manufacturers, I don't feel out of place asking that it be grounded unless you can provide instructiosn that show the manufacturer doesn't require same.
                              At my age, I'm accustomed to restaurants asking me to pay in advance, but now my bank has started sending me their calendar one month at a time.

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