Hydromassage Tub Bonding

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dirkhats

Member
Location
West Jordan, Utah
In 680.74 Bonding, it reads:
All metal piping systems and all grounded metal parts in contact with the circulating water shall be bonded...
Does this mean if the metal fresh water pipes which fills the tub that does not come in contact whith the circulating water (becouse we fili is above the tub), these pipes need not be bonded?
 
infinity

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
No, the piping system only needs to be bonded if it contains the circulating water.
 
mdshunk

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
I think you could make it to mean that, but I still bond them anyhow. That's new wording for the '05 I believe. Havn't checked to see how the '08 reads.
 
jwelectric

jwelectric

Senior Member
Location
North Carolina
Here is a slide from the Analysis of Changes 2005 by the IAEI

680742.jpg
 
mdshunk

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
The '08 has pretty much the same language, with additional language that the tub bonding jumper is for equipotential purposes and doesn't need run back to the panel. If it's for equipotential reasons, even though the water line is (should be) bonded to the service, it's not exactly at zero potential with the tub stuff, I would think. I'll continue to bond the water lines anyhow. Only costs me a couple clamps.

nec680.742008.jpg
 
M. D.

M. D.

Senior Member
17-167 Log #618 NEC-P17​
​
Final Action: Accept in Principle
(680.74)​

____________________________________________________________​
Submitter:​
​
​
Michael J. Johnston, Plano, TX​

Recommendation:​
​
​
Revise text to read as follows:
680.74 Bonding. All metal piping systems supplying hydromassage bathtubs,
including metal piping and all grounded metal parts in contact with the
circulating water, shall be bonded together using a copper bonding jumper,
insulated, covered, or bare, not smaller than 8 AWG solid. The bonding jumper
shall terminate at the pump motor on a terminal for this purpose.
FPN: The 8 AWG or larger solid copper bonding conductor shall not be
required to be extended or attached to any remote panelboard, service
equipment, or any electrode.​

Substantiation:​
​
​
The proposed revision is for clarification purposes. There
continues to be considerable confusion and inconsistency in how this
requirement is being applied in the field. The common practices currently
include bonding the hot and cold water piping supplying the tub to the terminal
lug on the pump motor (other than double insulated types). The current text is
being viewed and interpreted by some as only requiring ?metal piping systems
and grounded metal parts in contact with the circulation water? to be bonded.
The piping for the circulation water of a hydromassage tub is typically
nonmetallic. The questions arise as to the requirement for bonding the hot and
cold water supply piping system that is connected to the tub. If the objective is
to place all metal piping and metal parts such as faucets and valves associated
with the hydromassage tub at the same equipotential plane, then the Code
should clearly require that, and not leave users with any question as to what is
required to be bonded and where the bonding jumper is required to be
connected. The proposed FPN is the same one that follows 680.26 to help
clarify that this bonding conductor does not have to be routed to a panelboard
or service equipment or grounding electrode.
Note: Supporting material is available for review at NFPA Headquarters.​

Panel Meeting Action: Accept in Principle
Panel Statement:​
​
​
See panel action on Proposal 17-166.​

Number Eligible to Vote: 11
Ballot Results:​
​
​
Affirmative: 11
____________________________________________________________​

 
Cavie

Cavie

Senior Member
Location
SW Florida
infinity said:
No, the piping system only needs to be bonded if it contains the circulating water.
Click to expand...

Read it this way

1-(All metal piping systems) AND 2- (All grounded metal parts in contact with the circulating water) shall be bonded.

And thats the way it is.
 
M. D.

M. D.

Senior Member
And here is 17-166 ( I think there will still be those that argue that the supply, if metallic, does not require bonding ) I think they could have done a better job with the wording.

Panel Statement:​
​
​
The change meets the submitter?s intent.​

Number Eligible to Vote: 11
Ballot Results:​
​
​
Affirmative: 11
____________________________________________________________
17-166 Log #347 NEC-P17 Final Action: Accept in Principle
(680.74)​

____________________________________________________________​
TCC Action: The Technical Correlating Committee directs that the panel
reconsider and clarify the panel action on this proposal by using
mandatory language in accordance with the NEC Style Manual. This
action will be considered by the panel as a public comment.
Submitter:​
​
​
Michael J. Johnston, Plano, TX​

Recommendation:​
​
​
Revise text to read as follows:
680.74 Bonding. All metal piping systems and all grounded metal parts in
contact with the circulating water shall be bonded together using a copper
bonding jumper, insulated, covered, or bare, not smaller that 8 AWG solid. The
bonding jumper shall be connected to the terminal on the circulating pump
motor that is intended for this purpose. The bonding jumper shall not be
required to be connected to a double insulated circulating pump motor.
FPN: The 8 AWG or larger solid copper bonding jumper is required for
equipotential bonding in the area of the hydromasage bathtub and shall not be
required to be extended or attached to any remote panelboard, service
equipment, or any electrode.​

Substantiation:​
​
​
This proposed wording is an effort to provided clear direction
within this rule to users and enforcement about where the connections are
required to be made. The new FPN is consistent with the FPN to 680.26 in an
effort to inform the users of the Code, what the purpose of the bonding
required by this section is intended to accomplish. There continues to be a
significant number of enforcement officials requiring the bonding jumper
covered by this section to be run to the serving panelboard or service, and
connected to the grounding electrode. This connection is already accomplished
through the equipment grounding conductor of the circulation motor equipment
grounding conductor. The revision should provide the needed clarity and result
in more consistent application of the rules to these types of installations.​

Panel Meeting Action: Accept in Principle​
Revise 680.74 to read as follows:
680.74 Bonding. All metal piping systems and all grounded metal parts in
contact with the circulating water shall be bonded together using a copper
bonding jumper, insulated, covered, or bare, not smaller that 8 AWG solid. The
bonding jumper shall be connected to the terminal on the circulating pump
motor that is intended for this purpose. The bonding jumper shall not be​
​
required to be connected to a double insulated circulating pump motor. The 8
AWG or larger solid copper bonding jumper is required for equipotential
bonding in the area of the hydromasage bathtub and shall not be required to be
extended or attached to any remote panelboard, service equipment, or any
electrode.​
Panel Statement:​
​
​
The change meets the submitter?s intent.​

Number Eligible to Vote: 11
Ballot Results:​
​
​
Affirmative: 11​

Comment on Affirmative:​
BLEWITT, T.: The terminal for bonding will not always be on the pump
motor. The second sentence might better read:
?The bonding jumper shall be connected to the terminal identified for this
purpose.?​
 
M

monkey

Senior Member
Location
Arizona
I agree the wording is totally confusing........Marc I think we had this discussion on another board :). While it is normally of little consequence because as you said it is easily done, there are instances involving older masonary homes with the piping inside the masonary wall, stubbing out above the tub rim for the fixtures. This is common in the Southwest. The only way you are bonding this is to jackhammer into the wall under the skirt and clear enough around the pipe for a clamp. Not to mention sometimes the pipes are old galvanized pipes, easily subject to damage.
 
S

suemarkp

Senior Member
Location
Kent, WA
Occupation
Retired Engineer
No kidding. These guys need to learn how to use a comma series so we can tell what words modify what. Or else start writing like computer code with ( ) and AND and OR statements, or even bulleted lists.
 
M. D.

M. D.

Senior Member
Dennis Alwon said:
So if there is plastic pipes but an obviously metal faucet and values are you then required to bond them ?????
Click to expand...

not sure it is a "metal piping system"
 
D

dirkhats

Member
Location
West Jordan, Utah
Bond, Tub Bond

Bond, Tub Bond

After readig your posts, here is my conclusion...
-Should the metal fresh waster pipeing feeding the tub be bonded? Yes
-If I am doing the installation, am I going to bond it? Yes.
-Is it the codes intent to have this bonded? I think so.
-If another does the installation, can I require them to bond this? Not by using NEC 680.74. Wording simply does not support it, although I think that is the intent.
-Is this a saftey issue? I think so.
-Should this code wording be changed? Yes.
 
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