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    Hydromassage Tub Bonding

    In 680.74 Bonding, it reads:
    All metal piping systems and all grounded metal parts in contact with the circulating water shall be bonded...
    Does this mean if the metal fresh water pipes which fills the tub that does not come in contact whith the circulating water (becouse we fili is above the tub), these pipes need not be bonded?
    Dirk Burton
    Salt Lake City, Utah

    #2
    No, the piping system only needs to be bonded if it contains the circulating water.
    Rob

    Moderator

    All responses based on the 2017 NEC unless otherwise noted

    Comment


      #3
      I think you could make it to mean that, but I still bond them anyhow. That's new wording for the '05 I believe. Havn't checked to see how the '08 reads.

      Comment


        #4
        Here is a slide from the Analysis of Changes 2005 by the IAEI

        Mike Whitt
        [COLOR=#000066]God answers Knee-Mail. [/COLOR]

        Comment


          #5
          IAEI or not, how does that water pipe connect to the water recirculation system?
          Rob

          Moderator

          All responses based on the 2017 NEC unless otherwise noted

          Comment


            #6
            The '08 has pretty much the same language, with additional language that the tub bonding jumper is for equipotential purposes and doesn't need run back to the panel. If it's for equipotential reasons, even though the water line is (should be) bonded to the service, it's not exactly at zero potential with the tub stuff, I would think. I'll continue to bond the water lines anyhow. Only costs me a couple clamps.

            Comment


              #7
              Here we go again.:rolleyes:

              Check out these other threads:

              Here
              Here
              Here

              These are just a few of the more recent threads.

              Chris

              Comment


                #8
                17-167 Log #618 NEC-P17
                Final Action: Accept in Principle
                (680.74)

                __________________________________________________ __________
                Submitter:
                Michael J. Johnston, Plano, TX

                Recommendation:
                Revise text to read as follows:
                680.74 Bonding. All metal piping systems supplying hydromassage bathtubs,
                including metal piping and all grounded metal parts in contact with the
                circulating water, shall be bonded together using a copper bonding jumper,
                insulated, covered, or bare, not smaller than 8 AWG solid. The bonding jumper
                shall terminate at the pump motor on a terminal for this purpose.
                FPN: The 8 AWG or larger solid copper bonding conductor shall not be
                required to be extended or attached to any remote panelboard, service
                equipment, or any electrode.

                Substantiation:

                Panel Meeting Action: Accept in Principle
                Panel Statement:
                See panel action on Proposal 17-166.

                Number Eligible to Vote: 11
                Ballot Results:
                Affirmative: 11
                __________________________________________________ __________

                [COLOR=black][COLOR=black]"America will never be destroyed from the outside.
                If we falter and lose our freedoms,
                it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
                [/COLOR][/COLOR]
                Abraham Lincoln

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by infinity
                  No, the piping system only needs to be bonded if it contains the circulating water.
                  Read it this way

                  1-(All metal piping systems) AND 2- (All grounded metal parts in contact with the circulating water) shall be bonded.

                  And thats the way it is.
                  Unlimited Electric Contractor/Standard Electric Inspector/Traffic Signal Inspector/Highway Lighting and Level One Traffic Signal Installer.

                  I know you believe that you understand what you think I said but I'm sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    And here is 17-166 ( I think there will still be those that argue that the supply, if metallic, does not require bonding ) I think they could have done a better job with the wording.

                    Panel Statement:

                    Number Eligible to Vote: 11
                    Ballot Results:
                    Affirmative: 11
                    __________________________________________________ __________
                    17-166 Log #347 NEC-P17
                    Final Action: Accept in Principle
                    (680.74)

                    __________________________________________________ __________
                    TCC Action: The Technical Correlating Committee directs that the panel
                    reconsider and clarify the panel action on this proposal by using
                    mandatory language in accordance with the NEC Style Manual. This
                    action will be considered by the panel as a public comment.
                    Submitter:
                    Michael J. Johnston, Plano, TX

                    Recommendation:
                    Revise text to read as follows:
                    680.74 Bonding. All metal piping systems and all grounded metal parts in
                    contact with the circulating water shall be bonded together using a copper
                    bonding jumper, insulated, covered, or bare, not smaller that 8 AWG solid. The
                    bonding jumper shall be connected to the terminal on the circulating pump
                    motor that is intended for this purpose. The bonding jumper shall not be
                    required to be connected to a double insulated circulating pump motor.
                    FPN: The 8 AWG or larger solid copper bonding jumper is required for
                    equipotential bonding in the area of the hydromasage bathtub and shall not be
                    required to be extended or attached to any remote panelboard, service
                    equipment, or any electrode.

                    Substantiation:
                    This proposed wording is an effort to provided clear direction
                    within this rule to users and enforcement about where the connections are
                    required to be made. The new FPN is consistent with the FPN to 680.26 in an
                    effort to inform the users of the Code, what the purpose of the bonding
                    required by this section is intended to accomplish. There continues to be a
                    significant number of enforcement officials requiring the bonding jumper
                    covered by this section to be run to the serving panelboard or service, and
                    connected to the grounding electrode. This connection is already accomplished
                    through the equipment grounding conductor of the circulation motor equipment
                    grounding conductor. The revision should provide the needed clarity and result
                    in more consistent application of the rules to these types of installations.

                    Panel Meeting Action: Accept in Principle
                    Revise 680.74 to read as follows:
                    680.74 Bonding. All metal piping systems and all grounded metal parts in
                    contact with the circulating water shall be bonded together using a copper
                    bonding jumper, insulated, covered, or bare, not smaller that 8 AWG solid. The
                    bonding jumper shall be connected to the terminal on the circulating pump
                    motor that is intended for this purpose. The bonding jumper shall not be
                    required to be connected to a double insulated circulating pump motor. The 8
                    AWG or larger solid copper bonding jumper is required for equipotential
                    bonding in the area of the hydromasage bathtub and shall not be required to be
                    extended or attached to any remote panelboard, service equipment, or any
                    electrode.
                    Panel Statement:

                    Number Eligible to Vote: 11
                    Ballot Results:
                    Affirmative: 11

                    Comment on Affirmative:
                    [COLOR=black][COLOR=black]"America will never be destroyed from the outside.
                    If we falter and lose our freedoms,
                    it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
                    [/COLOR][/COLOR]
                    Abraham Lincoln

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I agree the wording is totally confusing........Marc I think we had this discussion on another board . While it is normally of little consequence because as you said it is easily done, there are instances involving older masonary homes with the piping inside the masonary wall, stubbing out above the tub rim for the fixtures. This is common in the Southwest. The only way you are bonding this is to jackhammer into the wall under the skirt and clear enough around the pipe for a clamp. Not to mention sometimes the pipes are old galvanized pipes, easily subject to damage.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I like how their version of clarification was the same language from the last cycle. :rolleyes:

                        Comment


                          #13
                          No kidding. These guys need to learn how to use a comma series so we can tell what words modify what. Or else start writing like computer code with ( ) and AND and OR statements, or even bulleted lists.
                          Mark
                          Kent, WA

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by infinity
                            No, the piping system only needs to be bonded if it contains the circulating water.
                            Are you still of this opinion ???
                            [COLOR=black][COLOR=black]"America will never be destroyed from the outside.
                            If we falter and lose our freedoms,
                            it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
                            [/COLOR][/COLOR]
                            Abraham Lincoln

                            Comment


                              #15
                              So if there is plastic pipes but an obviously metal faucet and values are you then required to bond them ?????
                              They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
                              She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
                              I can't help it if I'm lucky

                              Comment

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