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    In sight from

    Hello All,
    I am being told by an inspector that a residential hot tub installation is not compliant with the line of sight requirement for the following reason:
    The service compartment of the hot tub is on the opposite side of the tub from the disconnect. If a service person had his head in the compartment, he would be unable to see it. If he lifts his head (he would not even have to stand) he could clearly see the disconnect. It is complaint with the 5' rule from the inside wall of the tub (it's about 6' away). I told him (nicely) that I felt his argument was unreasonable and I would appeal. Can I get opinion(s) from the forum?
    I appreciate the help

    #2
    If you stick your head inside any enclosure, you won't be able to see anything outside it. The article 100 definition of "In Sight From" says the one item must be "visible . . . from the other." It does not say the one item must be "visible . . . from the inside of the other." You are right, IMHO.

    Welcome to the forum.
    Charles E. Beck, P.E., Seattle
    Comments based on 2017 NEC unless otherwise noted.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by charlie b View Post
      If you stick your head inside any enclosure, you won't be able to see anything outside it. The article 100 definition of "In Sight From" says the one item must be "visible . . . from the other." It does not say the one item must be "visible . . . from the inside of the other." You are right, IMHO.

      Welcome to the forum.
      I think I know where the inspector has his head!
      Sometimes I don't know whether I'm the boxer or the bag.

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        #4
        inspector is wrong.


        code makes no specification about this.

        also, the code does not require a disconnect within 5' of a residential hot tub.

        This is clearly stated in the last sentence of 680.41; "This requirement shall not apply to single-family dwellings."

        That said, some tub manufacturer's require it in their specs; that would be the only reason you need to install one at a SFD.
        [COLOR="Blue"]Brought to you by Carl's Jr.[/COLOR]

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          #5
          Originally posted by brantmacga View Post
          inspector is wrong.


          This is clearly stated in the last sentence of 680.41; "This requirement shall not apply to single-family dwellings."

          .
          680.41 is for emergency switches, Ithink the requirment for a disconnect would fall back to Part I in 680.12??
          Charlie

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            #6
            Originally posted by cpal View Post
            680.41 is for emergency switches, Ithink the requirment for a disconnect would fall back to Part I in 680.12??

            You are correct.
            Unlimited Electric Contractor/Standard Electric Inspector/Traffic Signal Inspector/Highway Lighting and Level One Traffic Signal Installer.

            I know you believe that you understand what you think I said but I'm sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

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              #7
              You are right. The inspector is being unreasonable and I would appeal if I were you also.

              Comment


                #8
                I have been turn down for this exact reason also. This also came up with the disposal thread and whether a switch on the wall would count as a disposal disconnect. I think it is a call the AHJ must make but I tend to side with you. I try and install my discos under the tub for this reason.
                They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
                She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
                I can't help it if I'm lucky

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                  #9
                  Reading the definition I would think that the disconnect only needs to be within sight of the tub. One piece of equipment (tub) within sight of the other piece of equipment (disconnect switch).

                  In Sight From (Within Sight From, Within Sight).
                  Rob

                  Moderator

                  All responses based on the 2017 NEC unless otherwise noted

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I do believe this is code compliant as it can be seen from the equipment location. However if this tub was in a deck, the tub was sunken, the equipment was serviced from below I believe the disconnect should be under the deck. I have been told on this forumn that the disconnect must be visable from the tub not the equipment it serves.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by jamesoftn View Post
                      I do believe this is code compliant as it can be seen from the equipment location. However if this tub was in a deck, the tub was sunken, the equipment was serviced from below I believe the disconnect should be under the deck. I have been told on this forumn that the disconnect must be visable from the tub not the equipment it serves.
                      Yup and you probably get some inspector that says you can't see the discconect from the tub because it is under the deck.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Thanks

                        I am grateful for all the responses. I felt pretty strongly that I had it right but I always like to gather experienced opinions.

                        The tub is on the same level as the disconnect (not recessed in a deck)

                        I will choose to fight! (He will probably hose me somewhere else as a result)


                        brantmacga - FYI, in residential applications, the disconnect means must be greater than 5' from the inner edge of the tub at it's closest point and in sight of the equipment (keeps the occupants of the tub from reaching the switch).

                        Thanks again to all!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by mike bianco View Post
                          I am grateful for all the responses. I felt pretty strongly that I had it right but I always like to gather experienced opinions.

                          The tub is on the same level as the disconnect (not recessed in a deck)

                          I will choose to fight! (He will probably hose me somewhere else as a result)


                          brantmacga - FYI, in residential applications, the disconnect means must be greater than 5' from the inner edge of the tub at it's closest point and in sight of the equipment (keeps the occupants of the tub from reaching the switch).

                          Thanks again to all!
                          This is where you need to closely examine the Article 100 definitions of Equipment and how it relates to In Sight From.
                          Rob

                          Moderator

                          All responses based on the 2017 NEC unless otherwise noted

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by cpal View Post
                            680.41 is for emergency switches, Ithink the requirment for a disconnect would fall back to Part I in 680.12??
                            yes you're right.


                            for some reason i wasn't thinking that was only on pool installations.

                            looks like it covers all of 680.
                            [COLOR="Blue"]Brought to you by Carl's Jr.[/COLOR]

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I agree with the others. It's in sight from the piece of equipment. Of course if you had you head inside of it you couldn't see the disconnect, but the same could be said if you had your back to it.
                              I can build anything you want if you draw a picture of it on the back of a big enough check.

                              [COLOR=red]There's no substitute for hard work....but that doesn't mean I'm going to give up trying to find one.[/COLOR]

                              John Childress
                              Electrical Inspector
                              IAEI / CEI / C10
                              Certified Electrical Inspector

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