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    Hot Tub Installation

    Question Pertaining to Single Family Dwelling Hot Tub Installation. Feeders and Branch circuits.


    A proper size breaker (60A) installed in the 40 circuit main breaker panel, the breaker is connected to a 6/3 WG NMB cable. The cable is runned to a two circuit main lug load center with a double pole 50A GFCI circuit breaker. The breaker serves as both the disconnect switch and provides the GFCI protection for the Hot Tub. The wiring method on the load side of the GFCI to the Hot Tub is liquid-tight with an insulated Equipment Ground Conductor.

    Is this a code compliant installation?
    Reference: 680.25, 680.25(a), 680.42(c)

    #2
    Is the tub located indoors or out? Is the required GFCI protected convenience outlet within 10 feet (between 10 and 20 feet if the tub is outdoors) of the tub?

    Is the enclosure for your breaker/disconnect rated for the location? Is this box located five feet or more away from the inside of the tub?

    There are many other factors that have to be considered before one could conclude that you have a Code compliant installation.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by George Newman Jr. View Post
      Question Pertaining to Single Family Dwelling Hot Tub Installation. Feeders and Branch circuits.


      A proper size breaker (60A) installed in the 40 circuit main breaker panel, the breaker is connected to a 6/3 WG NMB cable. The cable is runned to a two circuit main lug load center with a double pole 50A GFCI circuit breaker. The breaker serves as both the disconnect switch and provides the GFCI protection for the Hot Tub. The wiring method on the load side of the GFCI to the Hot Tub is liquid-tight with an insulated Equipment Ground Conductor.

      Is this a code compliant installation?
      Reference: 680.25, 680.25(a), 680.42(c)
      What you stated sounds compliant. The only issue may be what the specs on the tub requires for an EGC. Many of the tubs require a egc the same size as the ungrounded conductors-- in your case #6. Bogus, maybe, but a good inspector with the installation manual available could catch it. You should be aware of that requirement.

      I have been piping all my installations because of that. Fortunately I don't do a lot of tubs.
      They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
      She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
      I can't help it if I'm lucky

      Comment


        #4
        Is the liquid-tight 6' or less?

        Comment


          #5
          Question Clarification

          Originally posted by George Newman Jr. View Post
          Question Pertaining to Single Family Dwelling Hot Tub Installation. Feeders and Branch circuits.


          A proper size breaker (60A) installed in the 40 circuit main breaker panel, the breaker is connected to a 6/3 WG NMB cable. The cable is runned to a two circuit main lug load center with a double pole 50A GFCI circuit breaker. The breaker serves as both the disconnect switch and provides the GFCI protection for the Hot Tub. The wiring method on the load side of the GFCI to the Hot Tub is liquid-tight with an insulated Equipment Ground Conductor.

          Is this a code compliant installation?
          Reference: 680.25, 680.25(a), 680.42(c)
          Question Clarification: The real question is can you run 6/3 NMB cable or does it have to be in a raceway with a insulated EGC or other approved wiring method?
          For the purpose of this question is it agreed that the rest of the installation is correct?
          680.42C Allowes NMB cable to be used
          680.25 and 680.25C requires a feeder to have a insulated EGC to a panel board for pool equioment.
          There inlies the situation!!
          Feeder By definintion is: All Circuit conductors between the service equipment and the final overcurrent protection device.
          Is the 2 circuit load center with GFCI circuit breaker installed within, really classified or considered as a panel board for pool equipment? Therefore requires a wiring method to be used with a insulated EGC, and therefore not allowing NMB cable to be used to supply power to this disconnect or is it acceptable to run
          6/3 WG NMB cable?

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by George Newman Jr. View Post
            Question Pertaining to Single Family Dwelling Hot Tub Installation. Feeders and Branch circuits.


            A proper size breaker (60A) installed in the 40 circuit main breaker panel, the breaker is connected to a 6/3 WG NMB cable. The cable is runned to a two circuit main lug load center with a double pole 50A GFCI circuit breaker. The breaker serves as both the disconnect switch and provides the GFCI protection for the Hot Tub. The wiring method on the load side of the GFCI to the Hot Tub is liquid-tight with an insulated Equipment Ground Conductor.

            Is this a code compliant installation?
            Reference: 680.25, 680.25(a), 680.42(c)
            The portion I highlighted would make the NM cable you installed qualified as a feeder. Since it is a feeder, 680.42(C) does not apply.
            Move the 2-pole GFCI device back to the panel where the feeder starts, the NM cable will then be called a branch circuit, and you will be permitted to keep the NM cable up to the box you installed. Put a non-fused device in the box, as your disconnecting means.
            Instructor, Industry Advocate

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by George Newman Jr. View Post
              Question Pertaining to Single Family Dwelling Hot Tub Installation. Feeders and Branch circuits.


              A proper size breaker (60A) installed in the 40 circuit main breaker panel, the breaker is connected to a 6/3 WG NMB cable. The cable is runned to a two circuit main lug load center with a double pole 50A GFCI circuit breaker. The breaker serves as both the disconnect switch and provides the GFCI protection for the Hot Tub. The wiring method on the load side of the GFCI to the Hot Tub is liquid-tight with an insulated Equipment Ground Conductor.

              Is this a code compliant installation?
              Reference: 680.25, 680.25(a), 680.42(c)
              Question Clarification:
              The real question is can you run 6/3 NMB cable or does it have to be in a raceway with a insulated EGC or other approved wiring method?
              For the purpose of this question it is agreed that the rest of the in stallatinis correct?
              680.42C allows NMB cable to be used
              680.25 and 680.25C requires a feeder to have a insulated EGC to a panel board for pool equipment.
              There inlies the situation!!!
              Feeder by definition is: All circuit conductors between the service equipment and the final overcurrent protection device.
              Is the 2 circuit load center with GFCI circuit breaker installed within, really classified or considered as a panel board for pool equipment? THerefore requires a wiring method to be used with a insulated EGC, and therefore not allowing NMB cable to be used to supply power to this disconnect or is it acceptable to run 6/3 WG NMB cable?

              Comment


                #8
                That's an interesting question that you posted. I believe the concept is whether the wire to the disco is a feeder or a branch circuit. If I use a fuseless disco at the tub with a gfci breaker in the main panel then it is a branch circuit. If the disco is a breaker then it becomes a feeder unless the disco is considered part of the tub assembly. My opinion is that if you feed a panelboard then you would need the insulated egc but since you are feeding a disconnect, whether a breaker is installed or not, then NM is allowed.

                I can see how this can cause issues but if you read 680.42(C) it would make no sense if you are talking about the wire from the disco to the tub. It simply is not allowed outside thus it must be pertaining to the wire from the panel to the disco.
                They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
                She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
                I can't help it if I'm lucky

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
                  If the disco is a breaker then it becomes a feeder unless the disco is considered part of the tub assembly.
                  Can't the second breaker be considered "supplemental" OCP, and allow the entire circuit to be a BC?

                  This same thing has come up about A/C comnpresor units, but I don't remember the resulting concensus.
                  Master Electrician
                  Electrical Contractor
                  Richmond, VA

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by LarryFine View Post
                    Can't the second breaker be considered "supplemental" OCP, and allow the entire circuit to be a BC?

                    This same thing has come up about A/C comnpresor units, but I don't remember the resulting concensus.
                    I agree thus that is probably the reason this issue isn't red tagged.
                    They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
                    She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
                    I can't help it if I'm lucky

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Hot Tub Installation

                      Question Pertaining to Single Family Dwelling Hot Tub Installation. Feeders and Branch circuits.

                      A proper size breaker (60A) installed in the 40 circuit main breaker panel, the breaker is connected to a 6/3 WG NMB cable. The cable is runned to a two circuit main lug load center (CH60SPA) with a double pole 60A GFCI circuit breaker. The breaker serves as both the disconnect switch and provides the GFCI protection for the Hot Tub. The wiring method on the load side of the GFCI to the Hot Tub is liquid-tight with an insulated Equipment Ground Conductor.

                      The real question is can you run 6/3 NMB cable or does it have to be in a raceway with a insulated EGC or other approved wiring method?
                      For the purpose of this question it is agreed that the rest of the installations correct?
                      680.42C allows NMB cable to be used
                      680.25 and 680.25C requires a feeder to have a insulated EGC to a panel board for pool equipment.
                      There inlies the situation!!!
                      Feeder by definition is: All circuit conductors between the service equipment and the final overcurrent protection device.
                      Is the 2 circuit load center (CH60SPA) with GFCI circuit breaker installed within, really classified or considered as a panel board for pool equipment? Therefore requires a wiring method to be used with a insulated EGC, and therefore not allowing NMB cable to be used to supply power to this disconnect or is it acceptable to run 6/3 WG NMB cable?


                      Is this a code compliant installation?
                      Reference: 680.25, 680.25(a), 680.42(c)

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Hot tub inside or outside?
                        "If you always do what is right to others you can't go wrong"

                        The more I learn, the more I realize just how much I don't know.

                        Always consult your local code enforcement department for direction. Read at your own risk

                        Comment


                          #13
                          6/3 NM is not rated for 60A to begin with so we have an issue right off the bat. The rest of the answer depends on the location of the hot tub
                          "If you always do what is right to others you can't go wrong"

                          The more I learn, the more I realize just how much I don't know.

                          Always consult your local code enforcement department for direction. Read at your own risk

                          Comment


                            #14
                            It does not matter whether the hot tube is inside or outside

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by ivsenroute View Post
                              6/3 NM is not rated for 60A to begin with so we have an issue right off the bat.
                              240.4(B) does not apply?...as long as the load does not exceed 55A?

                              Comment

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