Equipotential bonding and a hot tub....

[emahler]

Ok, here is a question for you code geeks....

we have an installation in a single family dwelling. They installed a hot tub (typical outdoor type hot tub) inside the house, on the 2nd floor.

the house is typical stick built w/ wood trusses and sub floors..

the room that contains the hot tub has been tiled upto, and all the way around, the hot tub....but I believe that the hot tub itself is not sitting on the tile...

do they need an equipotential bonding grid, as would be required for the same installation if it were outdoors on a patio?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I do not see an exception for the equipotential grid. Section 680.43 states use the provisions of Part I and II of this article.

 

[augie47]

Dennis, I stand to be corrected, but I have always thought that 680.43(D) covered the bonding of inside tubs and "overrode" 680.16 bonding.....

 

[emahler]

might be, but this tub falls under 680, it's not a hydromessage...it's a hot tub under 680...

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

I hope they beefed up the floor to hold this.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Dennis, I stand to be corrected, but I have always thought that 680.43(D) covered the bonding of inside tubs and "overrode" 680.16 bonding.....

That's bonding. Part II has a section that is called equipotential bonding. I don't see this as a substitute. I too can be wrong but I don't see it that way.
I also think you mean 680.26 not 680.16. :grin:

 

[Dennis Alwon]

might be, but this tub falls under 680, it's not a hydromessage...it's a hot tub under 680...

Not sure who you are responding to but 680.43 is for hot tubs. Nobody quoted anything from hydromassage tubs.

 

[raider1]

might be, but this tub falls under 680, it's not a hydromessage...it's a hot tub under 680...

Hydromassage bathtubs fall under Article 680 as well, see Part VII of Article 680.

Chris

 

[augie47]

Chris,
Is it your opinion that an equipotential bonding grid per 680.26 must be installed for an indoor hot tub ?

 

[raider1]

Chris,
Is it your opinion that an equipotential bonding grid per 680.26 must be installed for an indoor hot tub ?

It is my opinion that 680.43(D) is used for bonding at indoor hot tubs instead of 680.26.

The list in 680.43(D) includes many of the same requirements of 680.26 so if 680.26 governed then 680.43(D) would not be needed.

I agree that this section is not very clear.

Chris

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Well here is another look at it. This is an email from the NC state inspector in response to my email about this issue.

Spas and Hot Tubs installed outdoors and indoors are required to meet 680.26(C), as being included in Parts I and II of the Article, unless modified. This does not exclude the equipotential bonding grid when place on conductive surfaces, paved or unpaved. It does however, by exclusion, except indoor spas that are not on paved surfaces or the ground.

A pool, spa, or hot tub, for instance, on the concrete floor of a basement would require the equipotential grid. If the spa or hot tub were on the second floor of the dwelling and not on paved surfaces or the earth, there would be no need for the grid. In contrast, if the upper floors were paved, such as concrete, the requirement would still apply.

 

[augie47]

If he is the AHJ for that area, so be it.... for his area.
I actually agree that his method is what "should be", but I personally don't find that wording in the NEC and am hardpressed to enforce his wording.

Chris is correct, some clarification in needed with the wording.

 

[A/A Fuel GTX]

I do not see an exception for the equipotential grid. Section 680.43 states use the provisions of Part I and II of this article.

Dennis....if the tile was to be part of the bonding grid, how would the connection be made. I guess the same could be said for an outdoor hot tub sitting on an existing concrete slab....how would that be connected to the grid:-?

 

[cpal]

It is my opinion that 680.43(D) is used for bonding at indoor hot tubs instead of 680.26.

Chris

I agree also

 

[jwjrw]

I just did a hottub on a deck 10 feet off the ground. The ahj and the state ins guy both told me I had to install the grid. I read the code as saying if the tub is on the ground or concrete. So I ran the ground down the deck post and installed a grid. They said it was for the volt poential detween the dcek and the tub. I think they arent reading the code correctly. And How Are You Gonna Install A Grid From The Second Floor? At least mine was on a deck outside lol!

 

[jwjrw]

Did anyone catch my thread where our states ins comm and the ahj where I live made we do a grid on a deck 10 ft off the ground? I told them both the code clearly states if on ground or concrete. They argued it was for voltage potential between tub and deck. I had to get an inspection so I did it but I thimk they were wrong.

 

[jwjrw]

Dennis this was in cabarrus county nc

 

[Steviechia2]

680.26 (2) states that the perimeter (SHALL) extend for 3ft horizontally beyond the inside walls of the pool and shall include unpaved surfaces as well as poured concrete. The code doesn't have any exceptions on the material it will be sitting on. Seems to me that even though if your 10' up on a wooden deck, you still need the equipotential grid. I guess a good question is how do you connect to a piece of wood? 680.43 (D) for indoor installs says nothing about the equipotential bond. I agree with Chris that this needs some clarification.

 

[augie47]

The draft of the 2011 Code helps somewhat
Under 680.43 on Indoor installations the following FPN has been added (if passed):

Exception No. 2: The equipotential bonding requirements
for perimeter surfaces in 680.26(B)(2) shall not apply to a
listed self-contained spa or hot tub when installed above​

the finished floor. [ROP 17-207]

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The draft of the 2011 Code helps somewhat
Under 680.43 on Indoor installations the following FPN has been added (if passed):

Exception No. 2: The equipotential bonding requirements
for perimeter surfaces in 680.26(B)(2) shall not apply to a
listed self-contained spa or hot tub when installed above​

the finished floor. [ROP 17-207]

This is pretty much what the NC state inspector has stated. Good find Gus