Peninsula Receptacle

[titan1021]

Just want to get clarification on the peninsula receptacle requirement. At this particular job I am looking at, they have a peninsula that extends out from a wall approx. 5ft. There is no other counter that connects to this peninsula.
There is an existing receptacle at counter height on the wall where the peninsula starts, obviously placed there to serve the peninsula. Wouldn't this meet the requirement for the one receptacle.

 

[charlie b]

I would say it counts.

 

[infinity]

I say that you need another receptacle on the peninsula. The one on the wall is serving the wall space not the peninsula.

(3) Peninsular Countertop Spaces. At least one receptacle outlet shall be installed at each peninsular countertop space with a long dimension of 600 mm (24 in.) or greater and a short dimension of 300 mm (12 in.) or greater. A peninsular countertop is measured from the connecting edge.

 

[titan1021]

I just found a Mike Holt illustration that shows a receptacle at the wall and one further down on the peninsula. It seems to be a gray area as far as that section of the code goes. I guess its better to be safe than sorry and just assume that an additional receptacle is needed.

Thanks

 

[infinity]

I just found a Mike Holt illustration that shows a receptacle at the wall and one further down on the peninsula. It seems to be a gray area as far as that section of the code goes. I guess its better to be safe than sorry and just assume that an additional receptacle is needed.

Thanks

I agree with you on the gray part. The code wording doesn't seem to address this situation directly. IMO you could see it either way.

 

[Volta]

I say that you need another receptacle on the peninsula. The one on the wall is serving the wall space not the peninsula.

You would not consider one "at counter height on the wall where the peninsula starts, obviously placed there to serve the peninsula" to be "installed at each peninsular countertop space"?

It does not define "at". I think an outlet located above the couter-top on the wall the peninsula connects to meets the letter and intent.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I would say it counts.

I say it don't. :grin:. The outlet on the wall covers the cabinet at that point. Remember the peninsula starts at the connecting edge to the cabinet.

One can look at it either way but I believe the NEC is saying that the cabinets attached to the wall are pertaining to the wall and the island would start 2' (usually) off the wall where it connects to the cabinet.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

It does not define "at". I think an outlet located above the couter-top on the wall the peninsula connects to meets the letter and intent.

Read art. 210.52(C)(3) last sentence. I believe the intent was as I mentioned above.

 

[Volta]

What cabinet?

 

[Volta]

Read art. 210.52(C)(3) last sentence. I believe the intent was as I mentioned above.

Okay, so if a 12" wide peninsula extends from the wall 24" or more, it needs an outlet installed "at" the peninsula. Why would it need to be located at the non-wall end? It only needs to be installed "at" the peninsula. There is no 2'/4' rule here.

 

[charlie b]

Start with a kitchen wall that has absolutely nothing connected to it - no countertops and no cabinets. Then slide this peninsula into that wall. This does not establish any "wall countertop spaces," as addressed in 210.52(C)(1). Rather, it establishes a "peninsular countertop space," as addressed in 210.52(C)(3).

Read art. 210.52(C)(3) last sentence. I believe the intent was as I mentioned above.

What that sentence says to me is that the peninsular countertop space begins at the point at which the peninsula's countertop touches the wall. So the receptacle in that wall counts as the required one. That's how I see it, anyway.

 

[infinity]

I say it don't. :grin:. The outlet on the wall covers the cabinet at that point. Remember the peninsula starts at the connecting edge to the cabinet.

One can look at it either way but I believe the NEC is saying that the cabinets attached to the wall are pertaining to the wall and the island would start 2' (usually) off the wall where it connects to the cabinet.

There is only a peninsula attached to the wall so where is the cabinet with the connecting edge?

 

[charlie b]

Dennis, are you talking about the cabinet under the peninsular countertop? Or are you presuming that the wall itself has an "upper cabinet" located above the point of connection of the peninsula?

 

[titan1021]

Start with a kitchen wall that has absolutely nothing connected to it - no countertops and no cabinets. Then slide this peninsula into that wall. This does not establish any "wall countertop spaces," as addressed in 210.52(C)(1). Rather, it establishes a "peninsular countertop space," as addressed in 210.52(C)(3). What that sentence says to me is that the peninsular countertop space begins at the point at which the peninsula's countertop touches the wall. So the receptacle in that wall counts as the required one. That's how I see it, anyway.

Thats the way I see it as well

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I don't have a handbook but my understanding was the peninsula starts where the it meets the cabinet that are along the wall. Why would the CMP put in the verbiage that the peninsula countertop is measured from the connecting edge. It would not be necessary if the recep. on the wall satisfied the requirement.

In the case of a peninsula coming straight out of the wall then I would call the first 2' cabinet and anything beyond that peninsula. The outlet on the wall covers the cabinets n the wall, IMO and another is needed on the peninsula to be code compliant.

We must have a recep. within 24" of the end of the counter. Then in your case a recep. would never be needed on the peninsula. Why even mention it in the code then. It would be totally useless.

I will stick to my guns. One on the wall and another is need for the part that extends beyond 2' of the cabinets.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Here is the way I see it. The peninsula is from the red line that is at the front of the cabinet on out. Here is my vision of it.

 

[mcclary's electrical]

Here is the way I see it. The peninsula is from the red line that is at the front of the cabinet on out. Here is my vision of it.

Your picture doesn't match the ops case. Your red line is the wall line Put a receptacle on that and you're good. There IS NO REASON for a receptacle there without the penninsula,,,right? So it's not a wall countertop outlet, it's a penninsula outlet

 

[Dennis Alwon]

No it does not match the OP's drawing but it should be no different. Do you see them as different? Why would the wall cabinet be there in one case and not the other. I see the op as having a 2' , let's call it wall cabinet, and 3' of peninsula. He needs another recep. IMO.

 

[titan1021]

Your picture doesn't match the ops case. Your red line is the wall line Put a receptacle on that and you're good. There IS NO REASON for a receptacle there without the penninsula,,,right? So it's not a wall countertop outlet, it's a penninsula outlet

You are correct, there is nothing on the wall or along the wall as shown in that drawing. The peninsula just jets out about 5' from a plain wall. The code should have a section of illustrations that clarify these issues. When bidding a job this could be a cost that I could end up eating if I didn't include it. The code is just too vague and leaves too many things wide open. I don't always have time to call and wait for call backs from AHJ's over such petty issues. Just frustrating!

 

[mcclary's electrical]

No it does not match the OP's drawing but it should be no different. Do you see them as different? Why would the wall cabinet be there in one case and not the other. I see the op as having a 2' , let's call it wall cabinet, and 3' of peninsula. He needs another recep. IMO.

Dennis, that's the second time you've called a single penninsula two different things at the same time . It's just not true. You're stretching wording to fit. The single receptacle is only there FOR ONE REASON, and that's the penninsula. NO WHERE can you show me that now a second one is required (don't mention sink) That receptacle is there for the penninsula