What is a Vending Machine?

[iwire]

Is there a 2005 NEC definition of vending machine?

Just like we needed a definition of bathroom and kitchen when GFCIs where required for those locations I think we may need a definition of vending machine.

1)A self service machine you put money in and you receive a product.

I would say that is a vending machine.

2)The freezer at a convenience store that contains bags of ice, you pay at the counter and grab your ice on the way to the car.

3)The slot machine at the casino.

4)An ATM

5)An Arcade type video game?

6)The thing at an arcade that you try to grab up prizes with a claw.

7)A Change machine

Are any of these vending machines?

I ask because of a new rule for 2005.

422.51 Cord-and-Plug-Connected Vending Machines

Cord-and-plug-connected vending machines manufactured or re-manufactured on or after January 1, 2005, shall include a ground-fault circuit interrupter as an integral part of the attachment plug or located in the power supply cord within 300 mm (12 in.) of the attachment plug. Cord-and-plug-connected vending machines not incorporating integral GFCI protection shall be connected to a GFCI protected outlet.

[ November 07, 2004, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]

 

[charlie]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

Bob, you are a trouble maker. LOL

The reality is though that this is a very good question. It sounds to me like you have a proposal for the 2008 Code.

 

[pierre]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

Webster's : A coin-operated machine for selling merchandise.

If we go by this definition, then any machine that is coin operated would require this 'manufacturer's installed GFCI device.

UL has: Vending machines (YWXV), and Refridgerated vending machines (SQMX).

[ November 07, 2004, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: pierre ]

 

[physis]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

I think that article 100 is one of the most useful in the NEC but unfortunately it's also one of the smallest. Going to Websters (I don't know what else you can do) I don't think usually ends in a solution.

I had to edit in my unhappy face.

[ November 07, 2004, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: physis ]

 

[iwire]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

Thanks for the replies.

I figure that the company's that make the machines know what UL category their equipment falls under.

I am more concerned with the last part of the new section.


Part of new section 422.51

Cord-and-plug-connected vending machines not incorporating integral GFCI protection shall be connected to a GFCI protected outlet.

Now the inspector and the installer must be able to determine what is a vending machine and what is not.

I really think ATM's are a different category but what about the inspector that sees all plug in machines that serve the public as vending machines?

Bob

 

[jimwalker]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

"Webster's : A coin-operated machine for selling merchandise."

What about the ones that take dollar bills ? Or was the danger from the metal coins ?

 

[petersonra]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

Can you avoid this by hard wiring the device?

I can't really understand the need for this. Can't recall hearing of too many people being electrocuted by vending machines.

 

[sandsnow]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

Sometime ago I heard there was an official NFPA dictionary. Is it true? Does anybody have one?

 

[bob]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

There was a kid recently who had just returned from swimming in the Gulf and went up to a drink machine and was electrocuted when he touched the machine. An investigation found that the energized conductor was frayed and laying against the frame. There was just a standard receptacle.
The breaker did not trip.

 

[steve66]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

A video game is coin operated, but it doesn't sell merchandice...so it would not fit in Websters definition.

Most ATM's I have seen are not cord and plug connected. They are usually hardwired 208V 30A (Around here, they have built in heaters. I think air conditioners are an option for states where its really hot.)

How can we require GFCI protection for something the user plugs in? How can we know which outlets are for vending machines? Won't most vending machines be brought in after the inspection?

Steve

 

[physis]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

That's a good point Steve. Maybe property owners will have to get a copy of the NEC.

[ November 08, 2004, 10:49 AM: Message edited by: physis ]

 

[rbalex]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

Originally posted by sandsnow:
Sometime ago I heard there was an official NFPA dictionary. Is it true? Does anybody have one?

NFPA has a "Glossary of Terms" and two Manuals of Style; one for general NFPA documents and one for the NEC specifically; they each have various sets of definitions in them.

All three are available here on the right-hand menu.

The "Glossary" is most likely what you are referring to.

 

[physis]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

I don't know how this got here?

[ November 08, 2004, 10:49 AM: Message edited by: physis ]

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

File under dumb *** NEC requirements. :roll:

 

[jimwalker]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

While the idea of gfci protection is great on vending machines i just dont see who will be inforcing it .

 

[sandsnow]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

The dictionary I was thinking about was a "webster" or equivalent type and a certain edition. I'll try to get back to the person who told me. My thought was to use that to define vending machine.

As far as who is going to enforce it, the AHJ as much as we can any Code req. some req.'s are easier than others.
Commercial plans usually call out recep's for vending machines and if not they are many times put in during a Temporary Occupancy so they are there on final. I don't see enforcement as huge deal, but the definition would be. Probably (as others have written) all across the board.

 

[rbalex]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

I don't believe such a dictionary exists; if it did it would be referenced in the Regulations Governing Committee Projects. The link is to the latest version.

 

[physis]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

And I would be happier!

 

[sandsnow]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

Sam
Prepare to be happier, maybe

The dictionary is referenced in the NFPA manual of style. Section 3.2.1.2 Link below:

http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/PDF/MOS1-3.pdf

Quote manual below:
Spelling and definitions of general words and terms shall follow Websters Collegiate Dictionary, 11th Edition.

So does anyone have one of these?

What I don't know is if this is to be used when enforcing the nec.

 

[physis]

Re: What is a Vending Machine?

Yippie!

I know you people think I just like to complain (and that's true) but I like solutions too!

Larry, I haven't checked it yet but I will. I have the 2003 NEC Style Manual already, is it in there?