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    What is a Vending Machine?

    Is there a 2005 NEC definition of vending machine?

    Just like we needed a definition of bathroom and kitchen when GFCIs where required for those locations I think we may need a definition of vending machine.

    1)A self service machine you put money in and you receive a product.

    I would say that is a vending machine.

    2)The freezer at a convenience store that contains bags of ice, you pay at the counter and grab your ice on the way to the car.

    3)The slot machine at the casino.

    4)An ATM

    5)An Arcade type video game?

    6)The thing at an arcade that you try to grab up prizes with a claw.

    7)A Change machine

    Are any of these vending machines?

    I ask because of a new rule for 2005.


    422.51 Cord-and-Plug-Connected Vending Machines

    Cord-and-plug-connected vending machines manufactured or re-manufactured on or after January 1, 2005, shall include a ground-fault circuit interrupter as an integral part of the attachment plug or located in the power supply cord within 300 mm (12 in.) of the attachment plug. Cord-and-plug-connected vending machines not incorporating integral GFCI protection shall be connected to a GFCI protected outlet.
    [ November 07, 2004, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]

    #2
    Re: What is a Vending Machine?

    Bob, you are a trouble maker. LOL

    The reality is though that this is a very good question. It sounds to me like you have a proposal for the 2008 Code.
    Charlie Eldridge, Indianapolis, Utility Power Guy

    Comment


      #3
      Re: What is a Vending Machine?

      Webster's : A coin-operated machine for selling merchandise.

      If we go by this definition, then any machine that is coin operated would require this 'manufacturer's installed GFCI device.

      UL has: Vending machines (YWXV), and Refridgerated vending machines (SQMX).

      [ November 07, 2004, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: pierre ]

      Comment


        #4
        Re: What is a Vending Machine?

        I think that article 100 is one of the most useful in the NEC but unfortunately it's also one of the smallest. Going to Websters (I don't know what else you can do) I don't think usually ends in a solution.

        I had to edit in my unhappy face.

        [ November 07, 2004, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: physis ]
        Sam, San Francisco Bay Area

        Comment


          #5
          Re: What is a Vending Machine?

          Thanks for the replies.

          I figure that the company's that make the machines know what UL category their equipment falls under.

          I am more concerned with the last part of the new section.


          Part of new section 422.51
          Cord-and-plug-connected vending machines not incorporating integral GFCI protection shall be connected to a GFCI protected outlet.
          Now the inspector and the installer must be able to determine what is a vending machine and what is not. :confused:

          I really think ATM's are a different category but what about the inspector that sees all plug in machines that serve the public as vending machines?

          Bob

          Comment


            #6
            Re: What is a Vending Machine?

            "Webster's : A coin-operated machine for selling merchandise."

            What about the ones that take dollar bills ? Or was the danger from the metal coins ? :confused:
            Tampa Florida

            Comment


              #7
              Re: What is a Vending Machine?

              Can you avoid this by hard wiring the device?

              I can't really understand the need for this. Can't recall hearing of too many people being electrocuted by vending machines.
              Bob

              Comment


                #8
                Re: What is a Vending Machine?

                Sometime ago I heard there was an official NFPA dictionary. Is it true? Does anybody have one?
                I'm a Retired Inspector, what do I know?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: What is a Vending Machine?

                  There was a kid recently who had just returned from swimming in the Gulf and went up to a drink machine and was electrocuted when he touched the machine. An investigation found that the energized conductor was frayed and laying against the frame. There was just a standard receptacle.
                  The breaker did not trip.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: What is a Vending Machine?

                    A video game is coin operated, but it doesn't sell merchandice...so it would not fit in Websters definition.

                    Most ATM's I have seen are not cord and plug connected. They are usually hardwired 208V 30A (Around here, they have built in heaters. I think air conditioners are an option for states where its really hot.)

                    How can we require GFCI protection for something the user plugs in? How can we know which outlets are for vending machines? Won't most vending machines be brought in after the inspection?

                    Steve

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: What is a Vending Machine?

                      That's a good point Steve. Maybe property owners will have to get a copy of the NEC.

                      [ November 08, 2004, 10:49 AM: Message edited by: physis ]
                      Sam, San Francisco Bay Area

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: What is a Vending Machine?

                        Originally posted by sandsnow:
                        Sometime ago I heard there was an official NFPA dictionary. Is it true? Does anybody have one?
                        NFPA has a "Glossary of Terms" and two Manuals of Style; one for general NFPA documents and one for the NEC specifically; they each have various sets of definitions in them.

                        All three are available here on the right-hand menu.

                        The "Glossary" is most likely what you are referring to.
                        "Bob"
                        Robert B. Alexander, P.E.
                        Answers based on 2017 NEC unless otherwise noted.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: What is a Vending Machine?

                          I don't know how this got here?

                          [ November 08, 2004, 10:49 AM: Message edited by: physis ]
                          Sam, San Francisco Bay Area

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: What is a Vending Machine?

                            File under dumb *** NEC requirements.
                            There are two kinds of people - those smart enough to know they donít know, and those dumb enough to insist they do.-----Margery Eagan

                            Open shop since 1988

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: What is a Vending Machine?

                              While the idea of gfci protection is great on vending machines i just dont see who will be inforcing it .
                              Tampa Florida

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