Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

When do repairs trigger an electrical upgrade?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    When do repairs trigger an electrical upgrade?

    In a pre 1970 house with ungrounded two wire system and fuse box - wouldn't a fire and total gutting of the walls and ceiling trigger an upgrade?

    Inspector says the fuse box is good and most of the wire is in good shape so it doesn't have to be replaced. He suggested the home owner upgrade the electrical but he couldn't "require it" to be replaced unless it was destroyed.

    Does this sound right? Most of the folks I talk to are surprised. We have to upgrade all the time for far less.

    Any ideas?

    #2
    What does the insurance company say about it?
    -Mark

    Industrial Occ. Safety & Health

    "Remember to pillage before you burn"

    Comment


      #3
      I would assume the fire dept sprayed water in there?
      If the wires were wet then they need to come out also the metal boxes.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Kcasey View Post
        In a pre 1970 house with ungrounded two wire system and fuse box - wouldn't a fire and total gutting of the walls and ceiling trigger an upgrade?

        Inspector says the fuse box is good and most of the wire is in good shape so it doesn't have to be replaced. He suggested the home owner upgrade the electrical but he couldn't "require it" to be replaced unless it was destroyed.

        Does this sound right? Most of the folks I talk to are surprised. We have to upgrade all the time for far less.

        Any ideas?
        What or who started the fire?
        Replacements are less urgent if the system of wiring fails gracefully, with plenty of warnings, rather than catastrophically.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by dieselram752 View Post
          I would assume the fire dept sprayed water in there?
          If the wires were wet then they need to come out also the metal boxes.
          I don't believe that is true.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by iwire View Post
            I don't believe that is true.
            NEMA thinks it is.
            http://www.nema.org/stds/water-damaged.cfm
            BB+/BB=?

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by mivey View Post
              I can't open that link.

              But there is a huge difference than something getting sprayed with water opposed to being submerged in water.

              It sounds like the inspector does not see water damage.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by iwire View Post
                I can't open that link.

                But there is a huge difference than something getting sprayed with water opposed to being submerged in water.

                It sounds like the inspector does not see water damage.
                Or contaminants. I'm not sure what is in firewater but I would not drink it.

                Evaluating Water-Damaged Electrical Equipment
                1 USE OF THIS PUBLICATION
                This publication provides information on how to evaluate electrical equipment that has been exposed to
                water through flooding, fire fighting activities, hurricanes, etc. It is designed for use by suppliers,
                installers, inspectors and users of electrical products.
                Electrical equipment exposed to water can be extremely hazardous if reenergized without proper
                reconditioning or replacement. Reductions in integrity of electrical equipment due to moisture can affect
                the ability of the equipment to perform its intended function. Damage to electrical equipment can also
                result from flood waters contaminated with chemicals, sewage, oil and other debris, which will affect the
                integrity and performance of the equipment. Ocean water and salt spray can be particularly damaging
                due to the corrosive and conductive nature of the salt water residue.
                Distributors of electrical equipment should not supply any inventory that has been subjected to water
                damage. This can lead to damaged equipment still being used and creating a hazard to individuals or
                property.
                4.5 Wire, Cable and Flexible Cords
                When any wire or cable product is exposed to water, any metallic component (such as the conductor,
                metallic shield, or armor) is subject to corrosion that can damage the component itself and/or cause
                termination failures. If water remains in medium voltage cable, it could accelerate insulation
                deterioration, causing premature failure. Wire and cable listed for only dry locations may become a
                shock hazard when energized after being exposed to water.
                Any recommendations for reconditioning wire and cable in Section 1.0 are based on the assumption
                that the water contains no high concentrations of chemicals, oils, etc. If it is suspected that the water
                has unusual contaminants, such as may be found in some floodwater, the manufacturer should be
                consulted before any decision is made to continue using any wire or cable products.
                BB+/BB=?

                Comment


                  #9
                  I've always gone with "If it has be exposed to heat, smoke, soot or water" it's out.

                  Opinions in other towns may vary but I have never had a fire adjuster question me.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    The real question is why wouldn't the homeowner want to replace the wiring while the walls are open? That's just crazy
                    I'm an electrician not a magician !

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Steviechia2 View Post
                      The real question is why wouldn't the homeowner want to replace the wiring while the walls are open? That's just crazy
                      Because they're too cheap/can't get someone else to pay for it.

                      I agree with the inspector [as an inspector] - if the wiring has not been damaged by the heat/fire [visual inspection] I am not in a position to mandate such replacement.

                      The NEC, under definitions [locations, dry] permit NM cable to become wet temporarily...and I have had the mfr. [in writing] say that NM cable completely saturated [rain] would not harm the cable and the cable was still suitable for installation.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        The usual rule around here is if 50% of the building (in floor area) is being rebuilt or renovated, the entire structure must be brought to present codes.
                        Master Electrician
                        Electrical Contractor
                        Richmond, VA

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by dana1028 View Post
                          Because they're too cheap/can't get someone else to pay for it.

                          I agree with the inspector [as an inspector] - if the wiring has not been damaged by the heat/fire [visual inspection] I am not in a position to mandate such replacement.

                          The NEC, under definitions [locations, dry] permit NM cable to become wet temporarily...and I have had the mfr. [in writing] say that NM cable completely saturated [rain] would not harm the cable and the cable was still suitable for installation.
                          110.11 gives some authority to require replacement. This would appear to be a judgement call on the inspector. If I have any doubt, I will require it to be replaced.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Kcasey View Post
                            In a pre 1970 house with ungrounded two wire system and fuse box - wouldn't a fire and total gutting of the walls and ceiling trigger an upgrade?

                            Inspector says the fuse box is good and most of the wire is in good shape so it doesn't have to be replaced. He suggested the home owner upgrade the electrical but he couldn't "require it" to be replaced unless it was destroyed.

                            Does this sound right? Most of the folks I talk to are surprised. We have to upgrade all the time for far less.

                            Any ideas?
                            I think the inspector is being rational about it. If the fuse box is "good" and the wiring is "in good shape", just what code would require replacement?
                            Bob

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by dana1028 View Post
                              Because they're too cheap/can't get someone else to pay for it.

                              I agree with the inspector [as an inspector] - if the wiring has not been damaged by the heat/fire [visual inspection] I am not in a position to mandate such replacement.

                              The NEC, under definitions [locations, dry] permit NM cable to become wet temporarily...and I have had the mfr. [in writing] say that NM cable completely saturated [rain] would not harm the cable and the cable was still suitable for installation.
                              I would agree. I have made them megger things if they plan on keeping them and I'm not sure and you also have to be carful of carbon build up from the fire.
                              I can build anything you want if you draw a picture of it on the back of a big enough check.

                              There's no substitute for hard work....but that doesn't mean I'm going to give up trying to find one.

                              John Childress
                              Electrical Inspector
                              IAEI / CEI / C10
                              Certified Electrical Inspector

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X