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    #16
    Well what I have is combination smoke detector and carbon monoxide detector all in one 120V single phase in dewelling living room, bedrooms. Do these have to be on AFCI?

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      #17
      Originally posted by hhsting View Post
      Well what I have is combination smoke detector and carbon monoxide detector all in one 120V single phase in dewelling living room, bedrooms. Do these have to be on AFCI?

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      Yes, if there are no local amendments.

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        #18
        Ok well are dewelling unit 120V single phase 20A combination smoke detector and carbon monoxide detector required to be on battery backup?

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          #19
          No such thing as a single phase 20A smoke detector! And yes, all smoke detectors and combination smoke detectors are required to have an internal backup battery.

          -Hal

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            #20
            Originally posted by hhsting View Post
            Well what I have is combination smoke detector and carbon monoxide detector all in one 120V single phase in dwelling living room, bedrooms. Do these have to be on AFCI?
            All outlets in those areas require AFCI protection. The smoke ALARM is connected to an outlet so AFCI protection is required. Just for clarity it's a smoke alarm not a smoke detector.
            Rob

            Moderator

            All responses based on the 2014 NEC unless otherwise noted

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              #21
              Actually smoke detector and carbon monoxide detector all in one is hard wired. No outlet.

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                #22
                Originally posted by hhsting View Post
                Actually smoke detector and carbon monoxide detector all in one is hard wired. No outlet.
                It is still an outlet.

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by hhsting View Post
                  Actually smoke detector and carbon monoxide detector all in one is hard wired. No outlet.
                  As packersparky stated it still is an outlet by Article 100 definition. It does not have to be a receptacle to be an outlet.

                  Outlet. A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment.
                  Rob

                  Moderator

                  All responses based on the 2014 NEC unless otherwise noted

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by infinity View Post
                    As packersparky stated it still is an outlet by Article 100 definition. It does not have to be a receptacle to be an outlet.
                    We've even debated whether a switch box is considered to be an outlet.
                    Master Electrician
                    Electrical Contractor
                    Richmond, VA

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by LarryFine View Post
                      We've even debated whether a switch box is considered to be an outlet.
                      The box is not the outlet. The outlet may be within the box. If all that is in the box is a simple switch, there is no outlet, that switch does not fit the NEC definition of outlet.

                      If it is a complex switch, say a programmable switch or something, then the logic portion of the control will have an "outlet", IMO.
                      I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

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                        #26
                        I have combo smoke detrctor and carbon monoxide detector hard wired. Not sure hiw they do it but I would imagine their is no switch at the detector dewelling unit.

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by hhsting View Post
                          I have combo smoke detrctor and carbon monoxide detector hard wired. Not sure hiw they do it but I would imagine their is no switch at the detector dewelling unit.
                          Forget about the switch discussion it has nothing to do with your question about smoke alarms and AFCI protection.
                          Rob

                          Moderator

                          All responses based on the 2014 NEC unless otherwise noted

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by hhsting View Post
                            I have combo smoke detrctor and carbon monoxide detector hard wired. Not sure hiw they do it but I would imagine their is no switch at the detector dewelling unit.

                            Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk
                            The unit in question is utilization equipment - it is a load to the electrical system - it has an "outlet". Exact location of that "outlet" is a little debatable, but there is one. More recent code editions added "devices" into 210.12, but it always applied to "outlets".
                            I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by kwired View Post
                              The box is not the outlet. The outlet may be within the box. If all that is in the box is a simple switch, there is no outlet, that switch does not fit the NEC definition of outlet.
                              Originally posted by NEC
                              Outlet. A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment.
                              Whether a receptacle or a light is installed, or a load is hard-wired, it seems to describe what is inside of the box to me.

                              If it is a complex switch, say a programmable switch or something, then the logic portion of the control will have an "outlet", IMO.
                              If the electronics in the device is the utilization equipment, it can't also be its own outlet; it is powered from the outlet.
                              Master Electrician
                              Electrical Contractor
                              Richmond, VA

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                                #30
                                Originally posted by kwired View Post
                                Not only the rooms mentioned, but the entire branch circuit must be protected. So if you install interconnected units all on one circu0

                                What if there is no gas burning appliances to create any CO?
                                A fireplace can generate CO2 also, as can a smouldering upholstery or carpet fire


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