Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Arc Fault Breakers for Smoke Detectors

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Arc Fault Breakers for Smoke Detectors

    I am providing a price to install smoke detectors in 427 residential housing units. Am I required to provide an arch fault breaker for this circuit? The smokes will be the only item on the circuit.

    #2
    what code cycle?

    What code cycle are you working with? In the 2005 and 08, you'll need AFCI for smokies in the bedrooms - 201.12.B for '08, 210.12 in '05
    Last edited by Howard Burger; 04-10-11, 01:32 PM.
    Howard

    "You don't know the character of a man until there is not enough." Dr. Jack Letts, MD

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Howard Burger View Post
      In the 2005 and 08, you'll need AFCI for smokies in the bedrooms...
      Not much experience with the '08 myself, but (in the '08) wouldn't the smokes be required to have AFCI protection in all of the following and not limited to bedrooms?

      "family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms,
      parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation
      rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms..."

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by ike5547 View Post
        Not much experience with the '08 myself, but (in the '08) wouldn't the smokes be required to have AFCI protection in all of the following and not limited to bedrooms?

        "family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms,
        parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation
        rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms..."
        According to 2008 NEC All outlets installed at above mentioned locations must be AFCI protected.

        On a second note, you may ask the AHJ, if you use an existing circuit instead of a dedicated, do you still have to install AFCI protection.
        Last edited by edward; 04-10-11, 02:27 PM. Reason: spelling
        Edward
        The only thing I know, is the progressive discovery of my ignorance

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by edward View Post
          On a second note, you may ask the AHJ, if you use an existing circuit instead of a dedicated, do you still have to install AFCI protection.
          I think you've nailed it, Edward.

          The only real answer for the Opening Post, is for Jodonnell to ask that question of the AHJ for the location of the job.

          While the '08 and '11 NECs require AFCI for most of the locations a smoke might be installed, local enforcement may well have amendments to the AFCI rule.

          Check with your AHJ.
          Another Al in Minnesota

          Comment


            #6
            Not sure what state your in, but in NC, CO2 detectors are required in rental units. Check with the AHJ, as the difference around here is about $35.00 per detector.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Jodonnell View Post
              I am providing a price to install smoke detectors in 427 residential housing units. Am I required to provide an arch fault breaker for this circuit? The smokes will be the only item on the circuit.
              The others have made good points. If you check with your AHJ, you might ask if the smokes can even be on a dedicated branch circuit.

              In my area, we adopt the International Code Council Electrical Code (ICCEC) which are Administrative Provisions. Section 1202.5 states: "Smoke detectors required by the International Building Code and installed within dwelling units shall not be connected as the only load on a branch circuit. Such detectors shall be supplied by branch circuits having lighting loads consisting of lighting outlets in habitable spaces."
              Last edited by construct; 04-13-11, 10:43 AM. Reason: forgot some punctuation

              Comment


                #8
                sorry at wrong post
                Last edited by hhsting; 06-18-19, 08:59 PM.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by edward View Post
                  According to 2008 NEC All outlets installed at above mentioned locations must be AFCI protected.

                  On a second note, you may ask the AHJ, if you use an existing circuit instead of a dedicated, do you still have to install AFCI protection.
                  Not only the rooms mentioned, but the entire branch circuit must be protected. So if you install interconnected units all on one circuit and have just one unit in a room that would force AFCI use - they all end up having protection because of that one unit. Of course these days nearly all the house requires AFCI anyway, but back when it was just bedrooms, the fact you put some of those "outlets" in the bedroom(s) kicked in AFCI protection for the entire circuit.

                  Originally posted by jimman View Post
                  Not sure what state your in, but in NC, CO2 detectors are required in rental units. Check with the AHJ, as the difference around here is about $35.00 per detector.
                  CO2 or CO?

                  What if there is no gas burning appliances to create any CO?
                  I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I am in heated debate with designer. I have dewelling units where smoke detectors are installed living room, kitchen, bathroom, bedrooms and designer is saying its bad idea to place AFCI on smoke detector 120V branch circuit. I asked AHJ supervisor electrical who is been their for 30 years plan review and he says its bad idea to put AFCI on smoke detector branch circuit dewelling unit 120V but there are no local ordiances for prohibiting it. He pointed to life and safety devices should never be put on sensitive circuit breaker such as AFCI. I am just really confused at this point. Which one is it?
                    Last edited by hhsting; 06-18-19, 09:16 PM.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by hhsting View Post
                      I am in heated debate with designer. I have dewelling units where smoke detectors are installed living room, kitchen, bathroom, bedrooms and designer is saying its bad idea to place AFCI on smoke detector 120V branch circuit. I asked AHJ supervisor electrical who is been their for 30 years plan review and he says its bad idea to put AFCI on smoke detector branch circuit dewelling unit 120V but there are no local ordiances for prohibiting it. He pointed to life and safety devices should never be put on sensitive circuit breaker such as AFCI. I am just really confused at this point. Which one is it?
                      Bad idea or not, NEC has always made it pretty clear that any "outlet" installed in whatever rooms are mentioned (which varies depending on which NEC cycle it was) needs AFCI protection for the entire branch circuit. A typical "smoke alarm" is an "outlet". More recently wording was changed to not only include "outlets" but any devices in mentioned rooms. So even if you don't think a smoke alarm is an "outlet" it still is covered by this more recent change.

                      Exceptions from AFCI protection for "fire alarms" are for an art 760 fire alarm system. A typical smoke alarm you find in dwellings is not something covered in art 760.

                      A 760 fire alarm system may have (probably will in most cases) "smoke detectors" but they are not the same thing or classification as typical line volt "smoke alarms".
                      I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        If I’m not mistaken, as of recent all smoke detectors now have battery back-up so if they are placed on a sensitive circuit, or a circuit which is the cause of fire, or during a power failure protection is still active. I have had no issues with smoke detectors on afci breakers.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by mopowr steve View Post
                          If I’m not mistaken, as of recent all smoke detectors now have battery back-up so if they are placed on a sensitive circuit, or a circuit which is the cause of fire, or during a power failure protection is still active. I have had no issues with smoke detectors on afci breakers.
                          I cannot remember residential style smokes not having batteries. It is a non issue, AFCI, GFCI, or neither.
                          Tom
                          TBLO

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by construct View Post
                            The others have made good points. If you check with your AHJ, you might ask if the smokes can even be on a dedicated branch circuit.

                            In my area, we adopt the International Code Council Electrical Code (ICCEC) which are Administrative Provisions. Section 1202.5 states: "Smoke detectors required by the International Building Code and installed within dwelling units shall not be connected as the only load on a branch circuit. Such detectors shall be supplied by branch circuits having lighting loads consisting of lighting outlets in habitable spaces."
                            I was unaware of this code but a former boss taught me to always put smokes together with lights. Lights out is the most noticeable red flag in most houses, so they get checked out quicker & smokes get the benefit.
                            Yes, I'll be happy to do a first class job for less than anyone else and take a dollar a week for 10 years.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by mopowr steve View Post
                              If I’m not mistaken, as of recent all smoke detectors now have battery back-up so if they are placed on a sensitive circuit, or a circuit which is the cause of fire, or during a power failure protection is still active. I have had no issues with smoke detectors on afci breakers.
                              IIRC, they have battery BU because of an nfpa directive created for sensitive circuitry......~RJ~

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X