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Is a parking canopy a "building"

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    #76
    The question of intent is relevant when there is ambiguity, but not when the words unambiguously go against the intent. Each AHJ has a certain amount of freedom to approve things that go against the wording but match the intent, but that approval does not change the meaning of the words.
    They are not AFAIK allowed to reject something that matches the words.

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      #77
      Originally posted by GoldDigger View Post
      The question of intent is relevant when there is ambiguity, but not when the words unambiguously go against the intent. ...
      Thought I was reading a quip from a fortune cookie there for a moment.
      [COLOR=RoyalBlue]I will have achieved my life's goal if I die with a smile on my face.[/COLOR]

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        #78
        Originally posted by GoldDigger View Post
        The question of intent is relevant when there is ambiguity, but not when the words unambiguously go against the intent. Each AHJ has a certain amount of freedom to approve things that go against the wording but match the intent, but that approval does not change the meaning of the words.
        They are not AFAIK allowed to reject something that matches the words.
        That is a much better way to describe it and I agree

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          #79
          Going back to the OP. Apparently this precise topic is among the items covered in the latest Code Corner in Home Power:

          Building or Structure?

          The NEC definition of structure is broad: “that which is built or constructed;” a building is defined as a “structure that stands alone or that is cut off from adjoining structures by fire walls with all openings therein protected by approved fire doors.” This could be a house (a dwelling), garage, office building, factory, or retail space, but not a carport or freestanding gazebo. A building is a structure, but not all structures are buildings.

          This matters because Section 690.56 requires a label identifying power sources and indicating the location of the PV system disconnecting means when PV systems are on either a building or a structure, thus applying, for example, to both a home or a carport. However, the rapid shutdown requirements of 690.12 apply only to PV systems on buildings—and thus do not apply to a carport or ground-mounted system. The 690.31(G) requirement for DC circuits to be in a metal raceway or type MC applies to circuits inside both buildings and structures. And a big change in the 2014 NEC was the removal of “on or penetrating a building” from Section 690.11, effectively extending DC arc-fault protection to all PV systems.
          I realize that this opinion won't change any minds here. But it's an unsolicited interpretation.

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            #80
            Originally posted by Home Power
            . . . A building is a structure, but not all structures are buildings.
            Bad logic, as previously discussed. Under the 2014 NEC definitions, a building is part of a structure, and every structure is one or more buildings.

            Cheers, Wayne

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              #81
              Originally posted by wwhitney View Post
              Bad logic, as previously discussed. Under the 2014 NEC definitions, a building is part of a structure, and every structure is one or more buildings.

              Cheers, Wayne
              Nope. Every building is a structure. Every structure is not a building.

              Building. A structure that stands alone or that is cut off from adjoining structures by fire walls with all openings therein protected by approved fire doors.

              Structure. That which is built or constructed.

              The definition for building states it is a structure. The definition for structure does not state that it is one or more buildings.

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                #82
                True. A structure that does not stand alone might not be a building, but just what would be an example of such a structure? It is, however, correct that a structure could also be more than one building.

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                  #83
                  I see a possible source of confusion here.

                  Say you have a house (a structure) and you build an attached carport. It will require some fire rating of the adjoining house wall, but I don't think the fire rating necessarily reaches the standard of "fire walls with all openings therein protected by approved fire doors". In any event, for the purposes of discussion, say it doesn't.

                  Now, do you have one structure or two? I say you have one structure, you just made it larger. It was one building before the carport, and it is one building after the carport. From this point of view, every structure "stands alone", in that it eventually stops and is surrounded by non-structure. So every structure contains at least one building.

                  Alternately you could say that the house and carport are two structures. That would mean that the carport is a structure that doesn't stand alone and doesn't meet the NEC definition of building. The problem with this idea is that it also implies that the house is no longer a building, which is nonsensical.

                  The conclusion is that under the NEC definitions, you can't have a structure without having at least one building.

                  Cheers, Wayne

                  Comment


                    #84
                    Originally posted by GoldDigger View Post
                    ... A structure that does not stand alone might not be a building, but just what would be an example of such a structure? ...
                    A structure within a structure that is not a building. The surrounding or complete structure is not a building, and the structure therein is also not a building.

                    Here's a building within a structure that is not a building...
                    [COLOR=RoyalBlue]I will have achieved my life's goal if I die with a smile on my face.[/COLOR]

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                      #85
                      Ok, so to avoid RSS on a ground mount PV system, just build a geodesic dome around it.

                      Got it. :-)

                      Cheers, Wayne

                      Comment


                        #86
                        Originally posted by wwhitney View Post
                        Ok, so to avoid RSS on a ground mount PV system, just build a geodesic dome around it.

                        Got it. :-)

                        Cheers, Wayne
                        [COLOR=RoyalBlue]I will have achieved my life's goal if I die with a smile on my face.[/COLOR]

                        Comment


                          #87
                          Originally posted by Smart $ View Post
                          A structure within a structure that is not a building. The surrounding or complete structure is not a building, and the structure therein is also not a building.

                          Here's a building within a structure that is not a building...
                          Now that's a Venn diagram.

                          Comment


                            #88
                            Originally posted by GoldDigger View Post
                            True. A structure that does not stand alone might not be a building, but just what would be an example of such a structure? It is, however, correct that a structure could also be more than one building.
                            It could be if the buildings were connected together by structures.

                            Comment


                              #89
                              Originally posted by pv_n00b View Post
                              It could be if the buildings were connected together by structures.
                              You mean if the buildings were connected together by other buildings?

                              Comment


                                #90
                                Originally posted by GoldDigger View Post
                                You mean if the buildings were connected together by other buildings?
                                No, actually by other structures in general but they could be connected by a building since a building is a structure. The buildings could also be connected by a structure that is not a building and then it could be considered one large structure. I am not sure how a group of separate, unconnected buildings could be considered one structure though.

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