I got this in the mail about photovoltaic systems

[peter d]

Pete, that makes no sense in this case, they are not asking for any new law. All the letter is asking is the continued enforcement of the long existing laws here in MA.

OK, fair enough, I guess I didn't understand what the letter was trying to say. :-? :roll:

 

[iwire]

Another issue with Photovoltaic installations is the rapid changes occuring within that field. The technology and the code are evolving very quickly.

That is a major point. As soon as I lean something a new product comes out.

I just heard this past week of some new technology where the Inverters are installed on the roof. How does that work for accessibility, if the roof is not accessible?

Many inverters on the market are already 3R or 4 already and the instructions will indicate mounting anywhere ... without regard for the NEC.

OH YEAH... this leads back to the proper training that is absolutely necessary. Even for inspectors.

I have handled two electrical inspections of PV systems, neither inspector had any clue what they should be looking for.

However because we where getting state rebate money the state sends out an Engineer who goes over the system with a fine tooth comb. I had to battle with one over 110.3(B) and 110.3(A). Of course I prevailed.

 

[iwire]

Well, then there needs to be enforcement of the current laws concerning installation of the Electrical portion, not changing the existing laws. 1 LIC--1 Helper on site.

Tom

I agree 100%

It is the PV side that wants the existing law watered down or eliminated for them.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

In NYS, the classes are being offered to anyone, whether they have electrical backround or not.

The classes have homeowners, engineers, GCs, etc....

 

[iwire]

In NYS, the classes are being offered to anyone, whether they have electrical backround or not.

The classes have homeowners, engineers, GCs, etc....

I went to a class in NY and the attendees where mostly engineers and EC owners, however there where one or two people that seemed to be there just because they where unnaturally attracted to anything called 'green'.

Soon enough you will see weekend classes at HD for this. :roll: But for me I support a HOs right to work on their own home so any classes are a plus.

I do have an issue with PV contractors trying to circumvent the existing laws.

 

[Davis9]

I hope they do have classes at HD, I'll be there too. I may have a few business cards with me too.

Tom

 

[electricalperson]

what they are trying to do is stop having people take work from licensed electricians and electrical contractors

 

[AdamsA+ElectricMA]

Finding a Solution

Finding a Solution

Presently I am curiousabout this letter. I am convinced that it is being produced by big money IBEW backing and I respect it's intent. I am non union and believe ther is a place for all of us in our profession. There is enough work to go around,especially now with the green movement. Having said that, i now am thrust into the malaise of who get's the PV work? It seems to me that we move with co-operation at the onset between these two sides to make sure we include those that persevered and made the PV industry is what is today and responsible for its acceptance as a valid sourse of energy and applicability. AND yes we that have our profession should get as much respect for our craft. training, and knowledge.

Enough said. i recommend this: Get out there, get the training, Insist that it is available. Second go to alternative energy fairs, join energy co-ops. Network! I did just that this weekend, I got 5 new clients, and get this, One of the top Solar installers in my valley wants to take me on to become an eventual partner. He Will teach me all he knows, I get paid while I do, and we both help each other out. We will be installing the whole system together start to finish. He respects the intent of the new laws and is willing to move forward with someone that wants to co--operate and ideally make his 30 years of investment and profession continue to be successful. Remember we all have pride in what we do best!

Respectfully, Richard Adams

 

[iwire]

Presently I am curiousabout this letter. I am convinced that it is being produced by big money IBEW backing and I respect it's intent. I am non union and believe ther is a place for all of us in our profession.

It is from 103 but they are not trying to lock out non-union electricians they are trying to have the existing laws maintained.

He respects the intent of the new laws

What 'new' laws?

The law that requires an electrical license to install electrical wiring in MA has been on the books for years.

There is no reason that some people that have caught the green bug should be allowed to circumvent the existing rules.

As far as teaming up, make sure you CYA, if your pulling the permits your name is on the line for all of the work.

 

[jaylectricity]

Presently I am curiousabout this letter. I am convinced that it is being produced by big money IBEW backing and I respect it's intent. I am non union and believe ther is a place for all of us in our profession. There is enough work to go around,especially now with the green movement.

Send some my way in the form of employment or customers. I could really use it.

 

[Infinergy]

We are looking for Dealers in North Carolina and other states

We are looking for Dealers in North Carolina and other states

I got some thing from a solar company wanting me to be a local distributor/installer. The only thing is I have to buy a display model.
The letter did not include the price. OUCHHH!

I say we need all the work we can get.


So be it , if we need to take a course to become certified in solar panels. I would do it.

Our prices are readily available and provided when requested and we are the largest network of Renewable Energy Installers in the United States.

 

[ITO]

Just the opposite is happening in Texas, they are trying to pass a bill that says a special license is required to install solar work, and the installers have to have 2 years work in the solar field which pretty much excludes most licensed electricians and contractors in Texas.

 

[petersonra]

The PV group mentioned made a statement at the hearing that their installers (non licensed) have better qualifications to make these installations.

I would not be at all surprised if that was the case. This is about turf. Both sides think there is money to be made and both want it for the people they represent.

Personally, I think if there has to be licensing for this kind of thing, it should be a seperate license.

 

[ITO]

I would not be at all surprised if that was the case. This is about turf. Both sides think there is money to be made and both want it for the people they represent.

Personally, I think if there has to be licensing for this kind of thing, it should be a seperate license.

I completely disagree, solar systems are clearly covered under the NEC and anyone other than a licensed electrician should not be doing electrical work for the the public.

 

[petersonra]

I completely disagree, solar systems are clearly covered under the NEC and anyone other than a licensed electrician should not be doing electrical work for the the public.

This is a specialty area, like AV and data. It should be a similar license.

 

[iwire]

This is a specialty area, like AV and data. It should be a similar license.

Those are also covered by the NEC and my licenses allows me to do both although it does not prove I am any good at either. :grin:

The way it stands right now in MA neither the ECs or the PV Contractors appear qualified. The ECs don't know the specific requirements of a PV systems and many PV contractors have very limited knowledge of the NEC.

The NEC and grounding are tough for ECs, the PV guys don't seem to have a clue. Many PV systems operate at close to 600 VDC so grounding these metal arrays is a true safety issue not a perceived one.

 

[CopperTone]

I got the card in the mail over 2 weeks ago. Darn right I signed it and mailed to the governor himself.

I would happily take a PV class to learn more about it. As new technology comes about we all need to adapt. PV should fall under an electrician's license but possibly make some training classes mandatory for all licensed electricians.
It it mandatory to take an osha 10 hour class to work on public works jobs - we have to take 15 hr code update classs and 6 hrs of professional classes every 3 years - why not just take another mandatory class?

 

[iwire]

With my limited time working with PV systems the places the electricians seem to fall short on are things like proper placement of the arrays, shadows, structural / roofing issues. And all of Article 690s specific requirements.

Oh yeah the biggie, grounded DC is not red and black, it is white and another color. :smile:

 

[Power Tech]

Those are also covered by the NEC and my licenses allows me to do both although it does not prove I am any good at either. :grin:

The way it stands right now in MA neither the ECs or the PV Contractors appear qualified. The ECs don't know the specific requirements of a PV systems and many PV contractors have very limited knowledge of the NEC.

The NEC and grounding are tough for ECs, the PV guys don't seem to have a clue. Many PV systems operate at close to 600 VDC so grounding these metal arrays is a true safety issue not a perceived one.

It is fine with me if a license is created just for the solar electrical installers but, a General Electrical Contractor should be able to install them also. Having an industrial background gives me the ability to do a wide range of work, from water companies to the oil field. I have installed solar systems and gas stations. If a job is engineered correctly and you have experienced, capable electricians. Electrical work is electrical work.

Do not mean to get off the thread. A UPS system requires no license to work on. Emerson, Leibert, and the big manufactures have an exemption. Very large DC systems, no regulation.

 

[iwire]

a General Electrical Contractor should be able to install them also.

I agree and for my sake I hope that is what happens, my point was ECs need to realize that they need training if they expect to sell, design and install PV systems successfully.:smile: