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    Binding Head Screw Terminals

    I would like it to be mandatory for manufacturers to put information specs in how electrical is to be connected if they choose not to provide box lug connectors.

    There is a restriction by the component manufacturer as to wire size that is allowed for a binding head terminal. HVAC Equipment manufacturer instructions have one reference the NEC for electrical connections. The photo I attached showing #8 THHN wire is not approved by the component manufacturer.

    http://imageshack.com/a/img924/8837/sLLcUF.jpg
    Last edited by Jgkopp; 06-06-17, 01:58 PM.

    #2
    http://imageshack.com/a/img924/535/USsEmM.jpg

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      #3
      generally UL requires this information be included in the instructions.
      Bob

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        #4
        This illustrates how we hook up larger than #10 wire to these terminals.

        http://imageshack.com/a/img923/3762/DcLvJR.jpg

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          #5
          Originally posted by petersonra View Post
          generally UL requires this information be included in the instructions.
          Its not, and I agree it should be required when larger conductors may be in use.

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            #6
            The question is why is a #8 being used on those terminals. Is that the required size or is someone oversizing the circuit? The manufacturer needs to have a terminal sized for the wires needed for their unit. If it is not then letters and phone calls need to be made to the mfgr.
            They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
            She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
            I can't help it if I'm lucky

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              #7
              This same component is used by manufacturer [Lennox Ind. & their subsidiaries] on residential HVAC Equipment 1 - 5 ton. Other manufacturers provide box lug on field hook up side of contactors. I have been harping on this subject with said manufacturer for years with no results. Looks like I have finally found a place to post my story. There are 100's of thousands of units not correctly connected.

              John

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                #8
                Originally posted by Jgkopp View Post
                Its not, and I agree it should be required when larger conductors may be in use.
                the thing is that the terminal is labeled in some way with the largest size wire that is allowed. I don't know what more you expect of the manufacturer.

                why do you want to use a larger wire than the terminal is rated for?

                what if the terminal is only rated for #10 and someone decides to use 1/0? if that were to happen it is the installers responsibility to figure out how to do it. it is not real hard to splice a #10 conductor to the end of the 1/0 conductor so the #10 can than be connected to the terminal.
                Bob

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by petersonra View Post
                  the thing is that the terminal is labeled in some way with the largest size wire that is allowed. I don't know what more you expect of the manufacturer.

                  why do you want to use a larger wire than the terminal is rated for?

                  what if the terminal is only rated for #10 and someone decides to use 1/0? if that were to happen it is the installers responsibility to figure out how to do it. it is not real hard to splice a #10 conductor to the end of the 1/0 conductor so the #10 can than be connected to the terminal.
                  The componet is not labeled with this information. I had to do a lot of digging to get this information.

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by Jgkopp View Post
                    The componet is not labeled with this information. I had to do a lot of digging to get this information.
                    But at least it is in the product catalog, even if few will read it there.

                    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

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                      #11
                      Compression lugs anyone?
                      Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes.

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                        #12
                        Let me ask you this- you mention 1-5 ton range. I would think that 1-2 ton would be wired with 12-10ga conductors. But if you are saying that the requirements for the larger units require a wire size larger than the #10 the clamp plate can accommodate, then yes I agree that the manufacturer needs to make some changes.

                        -Hal

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                          #13
                          MCA for a Lennox 5 ton unit is 29.6 amps with a MOC of 50 amps. Following NEC Article 440 this unit could operate on #10 wire with a 50 amp breaker however, proper wire sizing guidelines for distance and temperature could more than likely dictate a larger wire size. We typically find #8 wire for 4 & 5 ton condenser unit installations.

                          A 4 ton unit is 24.2 & 40 respectively.

                          At a minimum I think installation instructions need to address this with verbiage.

                          Interesting thread on our HVAC Talk site. Time Builder introduced this site within this thread. He speaks highly of this organization.

                          http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread....c-units/page14

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                            #14
                            Since you posted this in the Proposal topic, we need to see some suggested language and what code section it would be in. Then we can comment.
                            While this is more of a UL issue, perhaps a well worded proposal would get more attention from UL, et al
                            Moderator-Washington State
                            Ancora Imparo

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by tom baker View Post
                              Since you posted this in the Proposal topic, we need to see some suggested language and what code section it would be in. Then we can comment.
                              While this is more of a UL issue, perhaps a well worded proposal would get more attention from UL, et al
                              Thanks for your clarity, yes this could be a UL issue. I think they [UL] could require that the part have verbiage of this limitation on the label. This still does not address how the installer handles connecting a larger size conductor than what's specified by the component manufacturer.

                              If the code book were to address this, it could read "Binding Head Screw Terminals - The manufacturer shall state the maximum size conductor allowed with this connector. If connecting a larger size conductor, it shall be required to utilize a mechanical connector approved for this size conductor".

                              This being such a common occurrence, it needs to be stated by code that it is ok to hook up a larger conductor than the "max" specified by the component manufacturer.

                              john

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