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2020 Fire Fighter Disco 1 & 2 Family Dwellings 230.85

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    #31
    I would think that the fire department would want it that way, and would have the training to turn the gas off then turn the power off... they do get a load of training, after all.
    Student of electrical codes. Please Take others advice first.

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      #32
      most of the fire departments i know about have telescoping hot sticks to pull cutouts. i like the outdoor disconnect but i don't care for the reasoning

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        #33
        Originally posted by Wire-Smith View Post
        most of the fire departments i know about have telescoping hot sticks to pull cutouts. i like the outdoor disconnect but i don't care for the reasoning
        I don't know I like the idea of them operating open style medium voltage components unless they get some fairly extensive medium voltage training like POCO employees do. Sure it looks easy, but in abnormal conditions do they understand the possible hazards that may be out of ordinary? Do they train them to ground out the disconnected portion of circuit like POCO's typically would do? Do they know for certain if there is a possible two way feed involved in what they are attempting to disconnect, or at least how to tell if there is? POCO's are pretty good as a general rule on getting someone dispatched in short time in such incidents.

        I remember a vehicle accident in nearby town, I kind of witnessed most of the incident where this car crashed into a small substation that supplied the entire town. I wasn't real close to the scene but could see most of what was going on. Police officer was first emergency responder on the scene. He was smart enough to not let anyone near the substation until POCO said it was safe to approach. Fire fighters and EMT's showed up before POCO but could do nothing until POCO said it was safe. These were volunteer firefighters and EMT's, I wouldn't want to have any of them attempt to open the 34.5 kV lines supplying that substation, let those trained to handle that sort of thing do it, no sense in risking someone else besides the occupant of the vehicle. (he apparently had some sort of "medical emergency" is why his vehicle went off the road and crashed into the substation is about the only information I ever heard on why this incident happened)
        I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

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          #34
          Originally posted by Wire-Smith View Post
          most of the fire departments i know about have telescoping hot sticks to pull cutouts. i like the outdoor disconnect but i don't care for the reasoning
          The utilities around here do not permit that. The only ones that can do that are their employees. Very few fire personal have the knowledge and training required to pull the cutouts.
          Don, Illinois
          (All code citations are 2017 unless otherwise noted)

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            #35
            Originally posted by don_resqcapt19 View Post
            The utilities around here do not permit that. The only ones that can do that are their employees. Very few fire personal have the knowledge and training required to pull the cutouts.

            lol, different folks different strokes. i've done it just working for an electrical contractor, no smart meter though so poco never knew, had to ask neighbor if they were okay with power out for a little while though, luckily neighbors got a long with each other.

            a simple single phase cutout for a small service does not require much training.

            i'm not in a very bureaucratic area though either, i've heard a lot of things about pocos in other areas that i just have to laugh at comparing to how things are done around here.

            i'm not even a residential guy and i have a pile of meter tags the linemen give me, no i didn't ask and don't really care if i have them or not. a commercial service i was messing with once, the meter guy just told me i could throw the meter back in when i was done.

            i remember helping somebody on the side and the lineman called the guy i was helping and just told him he could cut the overhead service conductors if he wanted to and he would come out when we were done to put a tag on.
            Last edited by Wire-Smith; 12-05-18, 06:23 PM.

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              #36
              Originally posted by Wire-Smith View Post
              lol, different folks different strokes. i've done it just working for an electrical contractor, no smart meter though so poco never knew, had to ask neighbor if they were okay with power out for a little while though, luckily neighbors got a long with each other.
              ....
              One of the utilities here, will have a contractor arrested if they do that.
              Don, Illinois
              (All code citations are 2017 unless otherwise noted)

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by chris1971 View Post
                Stupid proposal!
                I agree. If they require me to install one of these on the outside of my house the fire department will need Semtex or C4 to get it open.
                Rob

                Moderator

                All responses based on the 2014 NEC unless otherwise noted

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by don_resqcapt19 View Post
                  One of the utilities here, will have a contractor arrested if they do that.

                  i've heard many places are supposed to be like that. by any chance have you actually heard of someone being arrested for that, that wasn't connected to copper theft?

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                    #39
                    Originally posted by Wire-Smith View Post
                    i've heard many places are supposed to be like that. by any chance have you actually heard of someone being arrested for that, that wasn't connected to copper theft?
                    I was personally threatened with arrest via phone when I wanted to open cutouts at a plant I was working on so I could repair a broken cutout on the load side of the utility cutout.
                    Don, Illinois
                    (All code citations are 2017 unless otherwise noted)

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by don_resqcapt19 View Post
                      I was personally threatened with arrest via phone when I wanted to open cutouts at a plant I was working on so I could repair a broken cutout on the load side of the utility cutout.
                      What would they charge you with though? What statute does it specifically violate?
                      Our comedian shamelessly joked about a blackout. Talk about dark humor.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by mbrooke View Post
                        What would they charge you with though? What statute does it specifically violate?
                        Using a tool on their cutouts is criminal trespass to property.
                        Don, Illinois
                        (All code citations are 2017 unless otherwise noted)

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by don_resqcapt19 View Post
                          Using a tool on their cutouts is criminal trespass to property.
                          But don't you first have to be warned that you trespassed before an arrest takes place?
                          Our comedian shamelessly joked about a blackout. Talk about dark humor.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by mbrooke View Post
                            But don't you first have to be warned that you trespassed before an arrest takes place?
                            Not really...they do that all the time with criminal trespass to vehicles and there are no signs on the vehicles.
                            Don, Illinois
                            (All code citations are 2017 unless otherwise noted)

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                              #44
                              Originally posted by don_resqcapt19 View Post
                              Not really...they do that all the time with criminal trespass to vehicles and there are no signs on the vehicles.


                              Just seems hard to prove/enforce in your case. I mean a break in is different then he said / she said.
                              Our comedian shamelessly joked about a blackout. Talk about dark humor.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by mbrooke View Post
                                Just seems hard to prove/enforce in your case. I mean a break in is different then he said / she said.

                                yep, so long as neighbors don't mind. if there was smart metering i would just call POCO for permission or for them to do it. if you get busted, be honest with the judge, you had no ill intentions, if the judge is also a moron then yeah you'll get in trouble but you probably get in trouble for other dumb stuff in that area too so your probably used to it. vote for officials that don't make dumb laws. life goes on. wash, rinse, repeat.

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