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    #31
    Originally posted by Haji View Post
    [COLOR=#333333][INDENT]Read again. The OSHA considers a person fresh from college with a degree also as ''qualified''. So he should not be considered as novice or trainee. Your company should allow him to work with you on live work.
    You are absoulty correct, as long as that college degree is about doing live work.

    You need to read the entire paragraph.


    It is rather a pity that you still do not see how expertise is transferred from one person to another.
    I was an aprentice for four years, I train apprentices so you are dead wrong on my understanding of it.

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      #32
      Originally posted by iwire View Post
      You are absoulty correct, as long as that college degree is about doing live work.
      Which college in the world offers electrical degree on live work?!
      Answer:None.
      Originally posted by iwire View Post
      I train apprentices so you are dead wrong on my understanding of it.
      Oh no, you do not get it. As a starter, I would recommend the following book to get an idea.
      http://www.amazon.in/Deep-Smarts-Cul.../dp/1591395283

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by Haji View Post
        Which college in the world offers electrical degree on live work?!
        Answer:None.
        I would bet you are correct.

        So college degree holders cannot do live work with me until they have received training and demonstrated their knowledge in that specific subject.

        See how easy it is?


        Oh no, you do not get it. As a starter, I would recommend the following book to get an idea.
        http://www.amazon.in/Deep-Smarts-Cul.../dp/1591395283

        I would probably do better following my local areas requirements for training.

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by iwire View Post
          I would bet you are correct.

          So college degree holders cannot do live work with me until they have received training and demonstrated their knowledge in that specific subject.

          See how easy it is?
          You think OSHA officials are foolish enough to state recognized degree holders who, by possession of such a degree, [COLOR=#333333]has successfully demonstrated his ability to solve or resolve problems relating to the subject matter, the work, or the project and so are qualified to do energized work. [/COLOR]

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            #35
            Originally posted by Haji View Post
            Yes I have no first hand experience with live electrical work procedures in the US.
            But this does not prevent me to question the stupidity in your way of doing work.
            nor does it prevent us from laughing at you.

            you continue ranting about something you have no firsthand experience with.
            the server for this forum, and most of the participants do not reside in india.
            we do not speak to your hot work practices, nor do we profess to know what
            your common practices are in india.

            a picture is worth a thousand words.

            ~New signature under construction.~
            ~~~~Please excuse the mess.~~~~

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              #36
              Can't just sit by

              Originally posted by Haji View Post
              You think OSHA officials are foolish enough to state recognized degree holders who, by possession of such a degree, has successfully demonstrated his ability to solve or resolve problems relating to the subject matter, the work, or the project and so are qualified to do energized work.
              You seem to want us to say you can do work hot, it will not happen. Too many of us have worked in this field to know better than have a unqualified person work hot, WE RESPECT LIFE it seems you do not if you want a novice or unqualified persons working in a hot situation. Work safe or die thats how I leave for work everyday as an electrician, and I go home.

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                #37
                Originally posted by Haji View Post
                Which college in the world offers electrical degree on live work?!
                Answer:None...
                The terms laid out in the OSHA standard are possibilities, not guarantees: It is possible a person may be effectively qualified by degree or certificate, but it is absolutely not a guarantee that a degree or certificate qualifies a person.

                OSHA can reference NFPA 70E in citations because it is a recognized standard for electrical safety. As an example, 70E defines qualified as
                One who has the demonstrated skills and knowledge related to the construction and operation of electrical equipment and installations and has received safety training to identify and avoid the hazards involved.
                Following that guideline, even electricians with the same licenses will not always be qualified the same way because of different work experiences. E.g., I often see licensed guys who have little knowledge of >1000V equipment, who would be frankly unqualified to work on it because their training did not address that.

                I would agree with others that a pretty universal guideline in this country for qualifying workers is for them to have extensive training on similar equipment while de-energized.

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                  #38
                  Too much safety

                  IMHO - Arc Flash restriction is out of control. I don't advocate working dangerously BUT most of us voluntarily take much bigger risks in sports, driving and living than a code writer would allow in the work place. I'd rather be aware of the risks, mitigate them as I choose and be allowed to take them if I choose. I would probably earn a higher wage and live better than the person that inflates costs by feather bedding work or work regulation that sap efficiency. Everyone who wants to work risk free needs to work in an office but you can still get a paper cut.

                  If you wanted to make widget factory and looked at the cost of regulations and bureaucrats, would you build in this country?

                  Opportunity is lost in this country in part because somebody gets a million dollars because THEY spill hot coffee in THEIR lap after they asked for the hot coffee. If the code writers had it their way, I have to suit up to drink a cup of warm coffee.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by iwire View Post









                    I just cant figure out why someone with out any experience with the rules is fighting so hard against the answers he is receiving.



                    It is always great to learn new things, I thing Haji would be wise to take note.
                    i think it more of misunderstanding of the differences and what they are used to in their own country
                    and as far as taking notes I agree 100 %
                    we are on a forum that is open to other cultures and electrical systems
                    having knowledge to help one another understand the systems makes us safer electricians and world wide friends
                    its a difficult task to keep from criticizing another countries systems with out fully and completely understanding it.
                    and a monumental task just to keep nationality out of the picture.

                    you would not believe the amount of abuse ive had to deal with just because i'm American

                    Im on international forums to learn those differences and use some of them to improve the methods we use every day
                    as any method that makes you a safer person is better in the long run and keeps you around to enjoy your family

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by Dan Kissel View Post
                      IMHO - Arc Flash restriction is out of control. I don't advocate working dangerously BUT most of us voluntarily take much bigger risks in sports, driving and living than a code writer would allow in the work place....
                      And if someone wants to endanger themselves, that is their choice. These laws are in place to help prevent employers from compelling their workers into dangerous acts and exposing their customers to significant liability.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by big john View Post
                        And if someone wants to endanger themselves, that is their choice. These laws are in place to help prevent employers from compelling their workers into dangerous acts and exposing their customers to significant liability.
                        agreed the main problem is getting the management to follow and obey those laws!
                        when their bonuses are percentage based the law is overruled by their greed and anyone who files complaints instantly puts a target on his/her back for abuse and or termination regardless of the law!

                        that is now the reason so many law offices are taking on cases of workplace bullying and hostility and quite frankly this has a lot of middle management types very nervous

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                          #42
                          I don't get the rope. if something went so wrong where a person had to pull a rope, by the time that person responds its all ready too late. If i had my pick I would rather let the explosion blow me away then have another force applied to me from another direction. the idea of the proper ppe in this situation we know we are still going to be injured but the proper ppe will limit that injury. now add someone pulling me in a different direction than I am already falling (or being forced in one direction) does not seem to be very healthy for the guy in the suit. if you are thinking about being held by the fault then I think that is very unlikely as long as you are in your proper ppe and using insulated tools. I don't get it.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by billk554 View Post
                            I don't get the rope. if something went so wrong where a person had to pull a rope, by the time that person responds its all ready too late. If i had my pick I would rather let the explosion blow me away then have another force applied to me from another direction. the idea of the proper ppe in this situation we know we are still going to be injured but the proper ppe will limit that injury. now add someone pulling me in a different direction than I am already falling (or being forced in one direction) does not seem to be very healthy for the guy in the suit. if you are thinking about being held by the fault then I think that is very unlikely as long as you are in your proper ppe and using insulated tools. I don't get it.
                            oh i understand what your saying but in some cases yes ac may blast you away but depending on the current and contact point can cause muscles to lock as in a your grip (this i know personally from a capacitor bank) I had to be pulled away from it because my hand locked on the beam(early in my apprenticeship a long time ago)
                            consider this the average electrician may have little contact with dc current above 36 volts but you will find it in many industrial institutions often ranging from 6 volts to over 600 volts depending on the equipment
                            the use of a rope allows someone to pull you off the contact without putting themselves in danger even if it results in breaking the bones in you fingers they can pull you away increasing the odds they will be able to revive you.

                            proper ppe and following procedures will [COLOR=#2f4f4f]minimise the chance[/COLOR] of accidents but does not eliminate all possibilities

                            loto and complete isolation of power is the best preventative measure there is (like I told a manager once which is more expensive to you the lack of production or a wrongful death lawsuit) he got the point immediately
                            Last edited by gnuuser; 03-18-15, 10:53 AM.

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