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    #31
    True Meternerd.
    But let's hear more of this "hill farm", so how many hectors do you need to raise hills?

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      #32
      Originally posted by sameguy View Post
      True Meternerd.
      But let's hear more of this "hill farm", so how many hectors do you need to raise hills?
      I think you might mean hectares possible.
      I think it was around 2,000 hectares.
      And we didn't raise hills, they raised us.

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        #33
        Originally posted by Besoeker3 View Post
        I think you might mean hectares possible.
        I think it was around 2,000 hectares.
        And we didn't raise hills, they raised us.
        That is a tad over 4900 acres. Good sized farm.
        Tom
        TBLO

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          #34
          Originally posted by ptonsparky View Post
          That is a tad over 4900 acres. Good sized farm.
          Yes, but lets not wander off topic.
          My fault. The OP got shocked. My dog got shocked. I got shocked.
          We learn,

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            #35
            Originally posted by Besoeker3 View Post
            Yes, but lets not wander off topic.
            In this forum? Never!
            Master Electrician
            Electrical Contractor
            Richmond, VA

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              #36
              Originally posted by drcampbell View Post
              The usual cause of delayed death is electroporation -- current punching holes in your cell walls. With enough porosity, your cells can't maintain electrolyte balance and you slowly poison yourself. It's particularly insidious for two reasons: [1] the first sign that anything's wrong is sudden death, which is difficult to treat, and [2] since the victim is injured, not sick, and appears to be OK, they usually don't think to test for problems like liver enzyme imbalance.

              There's a treatment available, but its effectiveness diminishes rapidly if not administered immediately.

              Electroporation doesn't kill you quickly because a more-severe electrical contact injury usually results in a prompt death from some other cause.

              Dr. Raphael Lee, University of Chicago, discovered this effect. (late 1980s or thereabout)

              After electroporation was discovered while investigating electrical trauma, it became a useful clinical technique for selectively killing cancer cells, and for introducing drugs and genetically-modified DNA directly into cells.
              Interesting. Isn't the electroporation an electrical hazard that happens at comparatively higher voltages, say 12 kV?

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                #37
                Originally posted by Sahib View Post
                Interesting. Isn't the electroporation an electrical hazard that happens at comparatively higher voltages, say 12 kV?
                According to the Eaton electrical safety instructor we had said as low as 70V could be fatal. The OP had a near miss.

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                  #38
                  I have read about the basic phenomenon, but I'm not an authority on electrical trauma.
                  If people have died several days after a low-voltage* electrical-contact injury, I would guess it's probably also a low-voltage hazard.
                  I would also guess that it's more a function of I2T -- current and time -- than voltage.
                  But like I said, I would be guessing.


                  * "low voltage" is defined as "600 volts, or less" in the States.

                  I have read about one electrical fatality that probably occurred at 24 volts DC. The deceased had wedged himself into a car trunk while installing a car stereo and couldn't move after receiving a shock. The shock continued for hours and although he was already dead, he was still exhibiting tetanic muscle spasms when discovered.
                  Yes, 24 volts. It was a megastereo.
                  Or it might have been due to a 120-volt worklight. It was ruled accidental and never thoroughly investigated.
                  Last edited by drcampbell; 02-01-19, 10:18 AM.

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                    #39
                    Originally posted by drcampbell View Post
                    I have read about the basic phenomenon, but I'm not an authority on electrical trauma.
                    If people have died several days after a low-voltage* electrical-contact injury, I would guess it's probably also a low-voltage hazard.
                    I would also guess that it's more a function of I2T -- current and time -- than voltage.
                    But like I said, I would be guessing.


                    * "low voltage" is defined as "600 volts, or less" in the States.

                    I have read about one electrical fatality that probably occurred at 24 volts DC. The deceased had wedged himself into a car trunk while installing a car stereo and couldn't move after receiving a shock. The shock continued for hours and although he was already dead, he was still exhibiting tetanic muscle spasms when discovered.
                    Yes, 24 volts. It was a megastereo.
                    Or it might have been due to a 120-volt worklight. It was ruled accidental and never thoroughly investigated.
                    If you bypass the skin resistance (sweat, puncture of skin on a sharp energized point, etc.) then 24 volts could indeed be hazardous. Especially for a cross body path. DC is not as hazardous as 60Hz with regard to disrupting heart rhythm. I will bet on the worklight, since constant DC is not likely to cause muscle spasms.
                    Although I suppose it could have involved making and breaking the contact, like the armature of a buzzer.

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                      #40
                      Automotive main electrical systems are usually 12VDC. Some components and subsystems could be different voltage though. I am not an audio expert but output of sound system, probably acts sort of like AC even if not a true AC waveform.

                      120 volt work light being involved would have raised my suspicion enough to warrant looking into it further.
                      I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

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                        #41
                        Originally posted by Besoeker3 View Post
                        The OP had a near miss.
                        'Near miss' is a management concept. It signifies more serious incident is due to happen unless proactive steps are taken to avoid it. In OP's case, she has to take necessary steps to protect herself in future.

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                          #42
                          Originally posted by Sahib View Post
                          'Near miss' is a management concept. It signifies more serious incident is due to happen unless proactive steps are taken to avoid it. In OP's case, she has to take necessary steps to protect herself in future.
                          And should have sought medical exam to ensure there is a future.
                          I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by Sahib View Post
                            'Near miss' is a management concept. It signifies more serious incident is due to happen unless proactive steps are taken to avoid it. In OP's case, she has to take necessary steps to protect herself in future.
                            I respectfully disagree.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by Besoeker3 View Post
                              I respectfully disagree.
                              And your view?

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                                #45
                                Originally posted by Sahib View Post
                                And your view?
                                It could have resulted in a fatality. Thankfully, it didn't. That's a near miss.

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