stars13bars2
Senior Member
Re: Island receptacles
What if I eat in what someone else calls my den or living room?? :roll:
What if I eat in what someone else calls my den or living room?? :roll:
Island receptacles
- Thread starter nascar03
- Start date
- Status
Re: Island receptacles
i don't care if you eat in the crawl space, sleep in the closet, and party in the bathroom, BUT an inspector or an ahj has the right to call for an outlet that is not on the small appliance circuit if the general provisions require one, especially if the plans label the abutting room a living room.
also remember that under the general requirements, dining room circuits are to be 20 amp.
but i am not worried about what you do either way, i was only responding to the intent of the first query.
paul
i don't care if you eat in the crawl space, sleep in the closet, and party in the bathroom, BUT an inspector or an ahj has the right to call for an outlet that is not on the small appliance circuit if the general provisions require one, especially if the plans label the abutting room a living room.
also remember that under the general requirements, dining room circuits are to be 20 amp.
but i am not worried about what you do either way, i was only responding to the intent of the first query.
paul
Re: Island receptacles
I work a modular plant that deals with houses all through the east coast and a cabinet is not considered wall space. The only time you'll run into needing a receptacle of this sort if it is a bar top (usually these are built like a wall anyway) (2) Wall Space. As used in this section, a wall space shall
include the following:
(1) Any space 600 mm (2 ft) or more in width (including
space measured around corners) and unbroken along the
floor line by doorways, fireplaces, and similar openings
(2) The space occupied by fixed panels in exterior walls,
excluding sliding panels
(3) The space afforded by fixed room dividers such as freestanding
bar-type counters or railings
Hope this helps.
I work a modular plant that deals with houses all through the east coast and a cabinet is not considered wall space. The only time you'll run into needing a receptacle of this sort if it is a bar top (usually these are built like a wall anyway) (2) Wall Space. As used in this section, a wall space shall
include the following:
(1) Any space 600 mm (2 ft) or more in width (including
space measured around corners) and unbroken along the
floor line by doorways, fireplaces, and similar openings
(2) The space occupied by fixed panels in exterior walls,
excluding sliding panels
(3) The space afforded by fixed room dividers such as freestanding
bar-type counters or railings
Hope this helps.
Re: Island receptacles
I am currently working on a 500+ sq. foot kitchen that has a "island" in the center of the room that measures 21 feet long by 4' wide. There is a 18" wide sink with a garbage disposal on the far south end , and a 4' wide gas range on the far north end, the remaining 15.5' is countertop workspace. The island is not flat on top, it has a 8" tall backsplash.
The cabinet layout fron north to south is...
1.5' drawer unit
4' gas range
2.5' cabinet
2.5' cabinet
1.5' waste basket drawer
1.5' drawer unit
3' cabinet with 18" sink on center
4.5' open below for a seating area
The seating area at the south end is raised to the backsplash height, 8" taller than the countertop surface.
The "countertops on the outside walls" consist of only 12" to the left of the sink and 42" to the right of the sink.
The NEC calls for only 4 outlets. One is required for the countertop surfaces on each side of the sink and one on the island + one more on the island because of the sink seperation.
(yes, I did install outlets based on the 24" rule)
I am currently working on a 500+ sq. foot kitchen that has a "island" in the center of the room that measures 21 feet long by 4' wide. There is a 18" wide sink with a garbage disposal on the far south end , and a 4' wide gas range on the far north end, the remaining 15.5' is countertop workspace. The island is not flat on top, it has a 8" tall backsplash.
The cabinet layout fron north to south is...
1.5' drawer unit
4' gas range
2.5' cabinet
2.5' cabinet
1.5' waste basket drawer
1.5' drawer unit
3' cabinet with 18" sink on center
4.5' open below for a seating area
The seating area at the south end is raised to the backsplash height, 8" taller than the countertop surface.
The "countertops on the outside walls" consist of only 12" to the left of the sink and 42" to the right of the sink.
The NEC calls for only 4 outlets. One is required for the countertop surfaces on each side of the sink and one on the island + one more on the island because of the sink seperation.
(yes, I did install outlets based on the 24" rule)
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Island receptacles
Yours is hardly a normal island.The code only requires 1 receptacle.Now if there are no other counters for SA then i believe you need the second outlet to provide the 2 SA required.I am sure the customer wants some other outlets but we are talking min required.This island could be served with 1 split duplex and meet code.There is no need to change the code
Yours is hardly a normal island.The code only requires 1 receptacle.Now if there are no other counters for SA then i believe you need the second outlet to provide the 2 SA required.I am sure the customer wants some other outlets but we are talking min required.This island could be served with 1 split duplex and meet code.There is no need to change the code
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: Island receptacles
Jim
Read Wayne's post back on December 7th. Also read the reference in the NEC, and you will see that he is correct. I believe this island will require more than one receptacle based on code.
Pierre
Jim
Read Wayne's post back on December 7th. Also read the reference in the NEC, and you will see that he is correct. I believe this island will require more than one receptacle based on code.
Pierre
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: Island receptacles
Here is how I would see it:
Starting from the north I am presumeing that this island is wider than 24" so the first space before the range which is 18" is wider than the required 12" so this space will be required to have one outlet, The space after the range is 105" which will require one outlet, The 53" after the sink will require one outlet also. Thats three receptacles just on the island then you get to the wall counter: which he stated is 12" to the left of the sink and 42" to the right so each would require a outlet and the right side would have to be installed to where it is no more than 24" from the receptacle to the end of the counter or sink. This brings the total receptacle outlets to 5 for the counters. Now for general wall space that is not serving counters it will be required for each wall space of 24" or more to have a outlet, then it is required to be within 6' of any break in the wall space, and so no point along the wall space is father then 6' from a receptacle, as stated in 210.52(A) So there will be more receptacles required then the 4 receptacles MSD stated. If the room is 10' x 25' you could have 9 more receptacles depending upon where the counters and appliance's land? And these will have to be on a 20 amp SA circuit save the dedicated receptacle for the frige.
Did I miss any?
[ January 08, 2005, 11:09 PM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]
Here is how I would see it:
Starting from the north I am presumeing that this island is wider than 24" so the first space before the range which is 18" is wider than the required 12" so this space will be required to have one outlet, The space after the range is 105" which will require one outlet, The 53" after the sink will require one outlet also. Thats three receptacles just on the island then you get to the wall counter: which he stated is 12" to the left of the sink and 42" to the right so each would require a outlet and the right side would have to be installed to where it is no more than 24" from the receptacle to the end of the counter or sink. This brings the total receptacle outlets to 5 for the counters. Now for general wall space that is not serving counters it will be required for each wall space of 24" or more to have a outlet, then it is required to be within 6' of any break in the wall space, and so no point along the wall space is father then 6' from a receptacle, as stated in 210.52(A) So there will be more receptacles required then the 4 receptacles MSD stated. If the room is 10' x 25' you could have 9 more receptacles depending upon where the counters and appliance's land? And these will have to be on a 20 amp SA circuit save the dedicated receptacle for the frige.
Did I miss any?
[ January 08, 2005, 11:09 PM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]
Re: Island receptacles
To get back on topic:
I was simply showing that islands come in every size. And that mine "would be" code compliant and pose a serious safety hazard (cords over burners and sink) if installed to the minimum requirements of the NEC.
Perhaps islands should be required to have outlets spaced no farther apart than _____ and/or atleast 1 outlet per ______ square feet of work surface area.
From a safety standpoint; is there some logic in the 24" rule only on the outide walls vs. the island? And at the same time allow/require only 1 outlet on an island.
Perhaps it has something to do with the upper cabinetry or maybe working too close to a window.
Agreed, however, not all islands are small either.
To get back on topic:
I was simply showing that islands come in every size. And that mine "would be" code compliant and pose a serious safety hazard (cords over burners and sink) if installed to the minimum requirements of the NEC.
Perhaps islands should be required to have outlets spaced no farther apart than _____ and/or atleast 1 outlet per ______ square feet of work surface area.
From a safety standpoint; is there some logic in the 24" rule only on the outide walls vs. the island? And at the same time allow/require only 1 outlet on an island.
Perhaps it has something to do with the upper cabinetry or maybe working too close to a window.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: Island receptacles
MSD It does require more than one receptacle on island's and peninsula's when the counter space is broken up by a range or sink:
210.52(C)(2) states:
MSD It does require more than one receptacle on island's and peninsula's when the counter space is broken up by a range or sink:
210.52(C)(2) states:
And 210.52(C)(3) states:
Then we look at 210.52(C)(4):
As we can see each separate space is required to have a receptacle. But islands and peninsula's are just not required have more than one in each "space" which would require three for your island, as there are three seperated spaces. which should keep a cord from being run over the range or sink.
zog
Senior Member
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
Re: Island receptacles
It seems to me that this is one of those areas that each inspector may view differently, some inspectors dont want them at all. I know our local guy does not like them, I would call your local inspector and ask. Maybe some of the inspectors in this group could give you a little more insight.
It seems to me that this is one of those areas that each inspector may view differently, some inspectors dont want them at all. I know our local guy does not like them, I would call your local inspector and ask. Maybe some of the inspectors in this group could give you a little more insight.
sandsnow
Senior Member
- Location
- Southern California
Re: Island receptacles
I think this is one of those that you have to be there to make the call.
A island could be a room divider just as a peninsula can be a room divider. If the end of the island (small dimension) faces the other room, then probably not going to be wallspace. If the long side faces, then it could be wallspace.
Most new houses (in our city) now have a family room facing the kitchen. so the "wallspace' recep's cannot be on the SA circuits. Well they call it a family room, even though everybody probably sits there and eats in front of the TV.
I think this is one of those that you have to be there to make the call.
A island could be a room divider just as a peninsula can be a room divider. If the end of the island (small dimension) faces the other room, then probably not going to be wallspace. If the long side faces, then it could be wallspace.
Most new houses (in our city) now have a family room facing the kitchen. so the "wallspace' recep's cannot be on the SA circuits. Well they call it a family room, even though everybody probably sits there and eats in front of the TV.
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