The city I work for requires a second island receptacle on Islands that exceed 4 feet. We require this because the area that faces the the living area is what we feel to be wall space. "Wall space over 2 feet requires a receptacle" My question is; is this correct or our we being unresonable?
Island receptacles
- Thread starter nascar03
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wirenut1980
Senior Member
- Location
- Plainfield, IN
Re: Island receptacles
IMO, a kitchen island is not wallspace.
IMO, a kitchen island is not wallspace.
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Re: Island receptacles
nascar03,
I suspect that the island you are describing is in a specific set of room configurations that would exclude, say, a kitchen that has four walls around it yet incorporates an island in it.
When the cabinetry is used to clearly divide the kitchen area from the living area, then, IMO, the cabinetry is arguably a wall space, 210(A)(2)(3)
nascar03,
I suspect that the island you are describing is in a specific set of room configurations that would exclude, say, a kitchen that has four walls around it yet incorporates an island in it.
When the cabinetry is used to clearly divide the kitchen area from the living area, then, IMO, the cabinetry is arguably a wall space, 210(A)(2)(3)
wirenut1980
Senior Member
- Location
- Plainfield, IN
Re: Island receptacles
This would be open to the AHJ's interpretation. I suppose I can see the usefulness of having an extra receptacle there, but I can't really see the need for it from any other standpoint other than that. Is there a reason other than the wallspace interpretation that AHJ's would require this?
Edit: Found wall space def.
[ December 07, 2004, 01:26 PM: Message edited by: wirenut1980 ]
This would be open to the AHJ's interpretation. I suppose I can see the usefulness of having an extra receptacle there, but I can't really see the need for it from any other standpoint other than that. Is there a reason other than the wallspace interpretation that AHJ's would require this?
Edit: Found wall space def.
[ December 07, 2004, 01:26 PM: Message edited by: wirenut1980 ]
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
Re: Island receptacles
My opinion is that a wall extends from floor to ceiling, especially since I seem to recall that in a couple places it refers to both walls and partitions, implying they are not the same thing.
My opinion is that a wall extends from floor to ceiling, especially since I seem to recall that in a couple places it refers to both walls and partitions, implying they are not the same thing.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: Island receptacles
In 210.52(C)(2)-(3)-(4) I see no place where a inspector could require an extra receptacle because of "wall space" In (4) it would be required to install another receptacle if the Island or Peninsular counter space is divided by something as in the list but to require it otherwise?
[ December 07, 2004, 06:17 PM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]
In 210.52(C)(2)-(3)-(4) I see no place where a inspector could require an extra receptacle because of "wall space" In (4) it would be required to install another receptacle if the Island or Peninsular counter space is divided by something as in the list but to require it otherwise?
[ December 07, 2004, 06:17 PM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Island receptacles
If we are calling it wall space then it no longer is an island.At that point it is a kitchen counter with wall behind it thats in some other room.
And if that 1 receptacle is in the right location it covers wall space 6 feet each direction.Perhaps in some cases we are calling things islands when they are not islands,in that case yes treat it as a wall.Not sure how you arived at that 4 foot rule.
If we are calling it wall space then it no longer is an island.At that point it is a kitchen counter with wall behind it thats in some other room.
And if that 1 receptacle is in the right location it covers wall space 6 feet each direction.Perhaps in some cases we are calling things islands when they are not islands,in that case yes treat it as a wall.Not sure how you arived at that 4 foot rule.
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: Island receptacles
This island 'wall space', is someone going to place a desk or maybe a lamp there? Sometimes we have to use commonsense judgements. The only one who can know for sure is the inspector who is physically there to see the situation at hand.
As far as the code requirement, it may not call for one to be located there - remember it is only the minimum requirement.
This island 'wall space', is someone going to place a desk or maybe a lamp there? Sometimes we have to use commonsense judgements. The only one who can know for sure is the inspector who is physically there to see the situation at hand.
As far as the code requirement, it may not call for one to be located there - remember it is only the minimum requirement.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: Island receptacles
As in: 210.52(C)(1) through (5).
Paul first the requirement that you stated from is in no way a kitchen counter. I have had an inspector try to site me using this.
This is in the general living space that uses the 6' wall space rule not the 2' rule used on kitchen counters.
As in: 210.52(C)(1) through (5).
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Island receptacles
"This is in the general living space that uses the 6' wall space rule not the 2' rule used on kitchen counters.
As in: 210.52(C)(1) through (5). "
The 6 feet rule does apply in the rest of the kitchen wall space.
Is a cabinet a wall ? most islands i see are a cabinet and not a wall.
"This is in the general living space that uses the 6' wall space rule not the 2' rule used on kitchen counters.
As in: 210.52(C)(1) through (5). "
The 6 feet rule does apply in the rest of the kitchen wall space.
Is a cabinet a wall ? most islands i see are a cabinet and not a wall.
Re: Island receptacles
without arguing about whether an island requires two outlets as part of the 2 small appliance circuits, it requires one for the SA outlets spacing, and if it fits the desription of a room divider, it will also require an outlet for that wall spacing under the general required outlets provisions.
the inspector is most probably right
paul
without arguing about whether an island requires two outlets as part of the 2 small appliance circuits, it requires one for the SA outlets spacing, and if it fits the desription of a room divider, it will also require an outlet for that wall spacing under the general required outlets provisions.
the inspector is most probably right
paul
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Island receptacles
Are we saying that the island receptacle can't serve the wall space as well as the counter space even if it falls within the 6 ft rule ?
Are we saying that the island receptacle can't serve the wall space as well as the counter space even if it falls within the 6 ft rule ?
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Island receptacles
Don't most islands have a top that goes over the cabinet by at least a few inches ? would this not indicate that all 4 walls are a part of that kitchen island.Therefore the island is in the kitchen,right ?????
Don't most islands have a top that goes over the cabinet by at least a few inches ? would this not indicate that all 4 walls are a part of that kitchen island.Therefore the island is in the kitchen,right ?????
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