Frank Adam Electric Co circuit breakers

[switchleg45]

Approved replacement circuit breaker for "Frank Adam Electric Co"?
This is a first for me. In 30 years I've never heard of this company.
If an inspector is requiring the HO to install a separate circuit for the MW and you have a panel that is no longer manufactured and that there is quite possibly no more circuit breakers anywhere for that panel...what are your options? Replace the panel?

 

[zog]

Approved replacement circuit breaker for "Frank Adam Electric Co"?
This is a first for me. In 30 years I've never heard of this company.
If an inspector is requiring the HO to install a separate circuit for the MW and you have a panel that is no longer manufactured and that there is quite possibly no more circuit breakers anywhere for that panel...what are your options? Replace the panel?

You can find them on ebay but I would not recommend ever buying a breaker off ebay unless you have the capability of testing it. Siemens makes a replacement breaker for Frank Adams breakers, thats your best bet.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

what are your options? Replace the panel?

That's what I would do. If there is an unused dp breaker somewhere in there you may be able to use that to feed a sub panel and wire the MW from that.

 

[K8MHZ]

I have seen FA's in old factories. They give me the creeps. There are many still working quite well, though. At least while there are no faults.

I always suggest replacement.

 

[mxslick]

I have seen FA's in old factories. They give me the creeps. There are many still working quite well, though. At least while there are no faults.

I always suggest replacement.

(Bold added by me)

Why? Other than a possibility of inadequate available fault current withstand capability, if it's working and has no signs of overheating, leave it alone!

I service a movie theatre with Frank Adams gear that is over 70 years old and it still works fine.

And we all know there is NOT ONE brand of modern breaker or gear out there that will STILL be functional 70+ years from now..

 

[zog]

And we all know there is NOT ONE brand of modern breaker or gear out there that will STILL be functional 70+ years from now..

You can say that again, they really don't make them like they used to. All this plastic junk these days wont last 10 years.

 

[TOOL_5150]

(Bold added by me)

Why?

Well, I dont know about you, but I work for the money.

I always SUGGEST a panel replacement on a panel that is 40+ years old. I explain to my customers that replacing it is not an absolute need, and not an immediate safety hazard, but I tell them that breakers are mechanical devices, and its more likely that they could not work correctly when its safety function is needed. Also in such cases as a job I got late last week, the breakers that are out today have better tripping mechanisims than they had back then. I didnt, and dont ever pressure my customers, I explain them the advantages of leaving it be versus changing it out and let them decide. This time they wanted the pushmatic replaced, as well as the murray sub right around the corner replaced.

~Matt

 

[mxslick]

Matt, my point is that why go through the labor and downtime involved in replacement because "They give me the creeps." (The blanket "I ALWAYS suggest replacement" is another flag.)

And as Zog noted,

<snip>Siemens makes a replacement breaker for Frank Adams breakers, thats your best bet.

you can get replacement breakers from Siemens which takes care of your concern over mechanical reliability.

IF, unlike FPE, there is no record of a latent hazard, then it is best left alone.

I DO agree that when properly presented to the customer as you have posted, that SUGGESTING a replacement is not a bad thing.

An analogy to my current line of work, would be for me to try to sell a cinema a new Christie film projector when their 1950's vintage Century projector is still running perfectly. You don't gain the trust of the customers with such tactics.

 

[zog]

IF, unlike FPE, there is no record of a latent hazard, then it is best left alone.

I DO agree that when properly presented to the customer as you have posted, that SUGGESTING a replacement is not a bad thing.

An analogy to my current line of work, would be for me to try to sell a cinema a new Christie film projector when their 1950's vintage Century projector is still running perfectly. You don't gain the trust of the customers with such tactics.

Well I have to argue with that logic, you know the projector is working fine based on the quality of the image. You have no idea if a breaker is working right unless you test it. Without any testing saying a breaker is working is always an assumption.

 

[jmellc]

Don't think I've ever seen a FA in use. Remember a place I worked where the supply dpt had an old FA 2.5 A breaker. That was in 1976. Whs mgr there never disposed of stuff, actually kept it in order too, a rare thing.

 

[jmellc]

P. S. I agree with advising customer to consider replacement, not forcing it. Gentle arm twisting OK if critical application. Something that hard to find can slow a place down or shut it down if a main brkr goes out. Depends on how critical steady power is. If not critical, could replace when it finally gives out. $ is a big issue too. Can't always pay for something. If I have a customer spending $ freely on junk, I may push harder than a frugal customer having hard times.

 

[Demagogue]

Replace the breaker not the panel.

Replace the breaker not the panel.

P. S. I agree with advising customer to consider replacement, not forcing it. Gentle arm twisting OK if critical application. Something that hard to find can slow a place down or shut it down if a main brkr goes out. Depends on how critical steady power is. If not critical, could replace when it finally gives out. $ is a big issue too. Can't always pay for something. If I have a customer spending $ freely on junk, I may push harder than a frugal customer having hard times.

I've run into these recently in an old plant. The panelboard is well designed and well built. With that said a breaker that is as old as these are is more likely to fail than a modern one. In addition, on the larger breakers from this company there is some question as to the instantaneous trip capabilities.

For example on a current project I have one of these panels in a building I am performing and Arc Flash Study on. A 225A breaker from this panel feeds a sub panel. Most modern breakers in the 225A class have adjustable magnetic trip or electronic trip units. The Frank Adams 225A breaker is not adjustable.

If there is a Siemens replacement for this breaker I will certainly suggest replacing the breaker or the entire panel to the owner. We could test this breaker but odds are hitting it with 2250 amps to test the instantaneous would destroy the breaker. This is the reason that we don't typically test breakers smaller than 400A unless they are suspect. They might trip but the trip causes them to fail.

I found this topic while searching for a replacement. I hope that Siemens makes one so that the owner can save some money because I would not trust the safety of my employees to a 40-50 year old untested circuit breaker. The added benefit to the owner will be the adjustable trip setting on the instantaneous. With the right breaker I will be able to reduce the arc flash rating on the down stream panel to level zero.

Of course this is an industrial plant and the solutions are different for industry than they would be for a homeowner.

 

[David40]

You can find them on ebay but I would not recommend ever buying a breaker off ebay unless you have the capability of testing it. Siemens makes a replacement breaker for Frank Adams breakers, thats your best bet.

I would be grateful if you could provide me with any information on where to find replacement breakers that will work in an old Frank Adams panel. These are the strange looking breakers with the bus clip in the middle of the face of the breaker.

Thanks,
David40

 

[tylerite3124]

Frank Adams Electric Co Panel

Frank Adams Electric Co Panel

My electrical contractor just removed an ancient Frank Adams Electric Co panel from a building we are redoing. Does anyone collect these things or is it just another piece for the scrap heap? It is in good shape and was working fine except new City ordinances required its removal and replacement before a CO could be obtained. If anyone is interested in this panel send me a Private Message.
Rick