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    Safety or NOT!

    For all you claiming that the NEC's main objective is "Safety" tell me this: (and maybe some of you at lighting fixture manufacturing can chime in)
    Why is a recessed light fixture somehow unsafe without the trim installed but is safe with the trim installed? And why would a phone line (hard line) be required in a residence? Regarding these questions and others I am often asking myself: What does this have to do with "Safety". I think all too often it has to do with adding to the pockets of the money grubbers. The wealthy elite care not about live and let live they want more and more and more.
    It is evident that there is in the universe a certain definite amount of electricity. Electricity can neither be created nor destroyed.:confused:

    #2
    Well I can think of many recessed fixtures that I would consider a fire hazard if operated without the trims.


    The phone line ........... you got me.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by switchleg45 View Post
      For all you claiming that the NEC's main objective is "Safety" tell me this: (and maybe some of you at lighting fixture manufacturing can chime in)
      Why is a recessed light fixture somehow unsafe without the trim installed but is safe with the trim installed? And why would a phone line (hard line) be required in a residence? Regarding these questions and others I am often asking myself: What does this have to do with "Safety". I think all too often it has to do with adding to the pockets of the money grubbers. The wealthy elite care not about live and let live they want more and more and more.
      So how was your day?

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by chris kennedy View Post
        So how was your day?
        It does kind of have that 'my day stunk' kind of tone. :grin:

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by iwire View Post
          It does kind of have that 'my day stunk' kind of tone. :grin:
          So he stopped by Moe's Tavern on the way home first.

          Comment


            #6
            Don't forget my favorite.

            Why do they allow unfused, unprotected SE cable inside houses?

            Game, set and match.
            Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are solely mine and do not necessarily reflect the views of other members of this community. Do not misunderstand them as an encouragement to violate the NEC. Also, don't forget that the NEC is not necessarily the AHJ.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by switchleg45 View Post
              And why would a phone line (hard line) be required in a residence?
              So you can call 911 or the fire dept.
              Master Electrician
              Electrical Contractor
              Richmond, VA

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by iwire View Post
                Well I can think of many recessed fixtures that I would consider a fire hazard if operated without the trims.


                The phone line ........... you got me.
                I agree with the reasoning of the trims on can lights.
                As far as the new code of installing at least one hard wired phone line. I was told in a code class that due to so many people going to voice over IP like Vonage it doesn't always have the correct 911 info in-case of emergency. With that said, I know of nothing that requires the HO to have that hard wired line activated. But from a code point of view we have done our job.
                Organized people are people that are just too lazy to look for their stuff

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                  #9
                  when the testing lab tests the fixture for whatever tests are applicable, they are done so as an assembly. since the manufacturer's have no interest in selling the fixture without a trim (not to mention the fact that the general population does not use fixtures without the trims), what sense would it make for them to test them or list them for use without the trims ? Do you really have an application where someone wants to install a bunch of fixtures without trims ?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by nakulak View Post
                    when the testing lab tests the fixture for whatever tests are applicable, they are done so as an assembly. since the manufacturer's have no interest in selling the fixture without a trim (not to mention the fact that the general population does not use fixtures without the trims), what sense would it make for them to test them or list them for use without the trims ? Do you really have an application where someone wants to install a bunch of fixtures without trims ?
                    Yeah: Pre-paint & mudding. Now if they will just quit painting & muddiing my lamps.
                    BB+/BB=?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I agree that the installation of a phone line is not safety related and submitted a comment in opposition to that proposal. The rule does not make any sense in that it requires the "communications outlet" to be wired to the service provider demarcation point. If you are building a new house and do not contract for service with a communications utility there will not be a demarcation point. Also they have not defined "communications outlet", and while the intent was a "phone outlet", I think that a cable TV outlet would satisfy the code wording. About 20% of people do not have a land line phone now and that number is growing every day. There is really no good reason for a young person who has grown up with a cell phone to ever have a land line phone in his or her house.
                      Don, Illinois
                      (All code citations are 2017 unless otherwise noted)

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by switchleg45 View Post
                        For all you claiming that the NEC's main objective is "Safety" tell me this: (and maybe some of you at lighting fixture manufacturing can chime in)
                        Why is a recessed light fixture somehow unsafe without the trim installed but is safe with the trim installed? And why would a phone line (hard line) be required in a residence? Regarding these questions and others I am often asking myself: What does this have to do with "Safety". I think all too often it has to do with adding to the pockets of the money grubbers. The wealthy elite care not about live and let live they want more and more and more.
                        Safety if you include equipment safety and insurance reduction.

                        Nakaluk in post #9 has the answer to the light fixtures. It was tested with trim; some are dangerous without trim; therefore assemble it as listed.

                        Phone lines are not an issue I deal with so I don't know what code you are citing. Since most primary homes will desire a land line with the first or second HO the reason follows why outlets are installed. Installing such a common item after the fact is hugely expensive and we don't want the HO to DIY the thing. A requirement for land lines should have been a 1970s thing when usage became obvious. Not a 2008 thing when the usage is now dropping. If we didn't need the requirement over the last 40 years on the upslope then we don't need it now on the downslope of the technology.
                        A rose by any other name is tax deductible [1978 Wayne Wilcox]
                        People who read too many books get quirky. [2000 John Taylor Gatto]

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I wouldn't consider phone lines to be on the downslope. Look at how many people are using DSL.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by LarryFine View Post
                            So you can call 911 or the fire dept.
                            so 'they' will now start forcing citizens to have a land line!!
                            Last edited by iwire; 09-10-09, 07:42 PM. Reason: Moderator Forum
                            It is evident that there is in the universe a certain definite amount of electricity. Electricity can neither be created nor destroyed.:confused:

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I have not read the wording of the requirement for the installation of a hard line communications circuit.

                              My question would be what conductors are going to be run?

                              RG-6 for using CATV?

                              Twisted pair for conventional TX?

                              Cat rated cable for Ethernet?

                              RG-8 for 2 way radio equipment?

                              I don't have a 2008 book, we are still on the '05.

                              Could someone cite the wording for me?
                              Cheers and Stay Safe,

                              Marky the Sparky

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