Breaker Temperature Advice

[InspectorWill]

I recently inspected a small condominium with the addition of at least 8-12 recessed light fixtures including incandescent and halogen. Multiple dimmer switches were also installed. A "handyman" installed all the fixtures. I am very familiar with the unit layout and electrical panels as I happen to live in an identical unit in the same complex. I know that none of the recessed lamps are original and that there is no additional breaker in the panel. During an infrared examination of the panel, the breaker serving these added fixtures measured 110+ degrees fahrenheit. This is well within operating temperature but all other breakers were under 70 degrees fahrenheit. Because it was the bottom breaker, I could see with the IR cameral that the hottest temperature was in the center of the breaker. The thermal anomaly concerns me. I would really appreciate an expert opinion as to the potential deficiencies if any and what an electrician would recommend in this instance. Sorry but I do not have image posting authorization at this time.

 

[480sparky]

What makes you think 110?F is 'too hot'?

It routinely gets hotter than that in many parts of the world, and no one's house spontaneously combusts.

 

[cadpoint]

That's 43.33 ?C (Celsius)= 110?F

What your looking for is 60?C = 140?F

 

[kwired]

it is hotter than other breakers because it operating at a load significantly higher than other breakers over a longer time period in relation to the trip point.

try measuring a breaker supplying air conditioning equipment on a hot day where the ac runs continuously and it will be fairly warm also but not higher than its temp rating if everything else is ok.

measure any breaker supplying a continuous load near the rating of the breaker you will find it is normal for them to get pretty warm.

one other question why does an inspector use a thermal camera, your ahj must have a strong budget

 

[InspectorWill]

Why the bitterness

Why the bitterness

I thought this forum was to share knowledge for the betterment of all professionals here. I never once said the breaker was "too hot". I simply said it was hotter than the other circuits and included that it was within normal operating temperature. My concern was that the temperature anomaly on the circuit which was altered by an unlicensed person could be indicative of a deficiency. Sorry I dared to ask. Additionally, there is no AHJ paying my budget and why is that any concern? We are here to share and gain knowledge.

 

[jim dungar]

... I could see with the IR cameral that the hottest temperature was in the center of the breaker. The thermal anomaly concerns me....

There is no problem.

The hottest spot of a breaker is near the handle. The outside edges should always be cooler. It would not be unusual to find the coolest spot to be the lug terminations (they are only allowed to get to about 50?C).

 

[InspectorWill]

Thank you, Jim

Thank you, Jim

Thanks Jim, appreciate the straight forward answer.

 

[brian john]

Thanks Jim, appreciate the straight forward answer.

Did you measure current?
What is/was the Ambient?
Did you perform a FOP test?
Breaker Amperage and conductor size?

All of these need to be answered to determine if the CB is operating within it's range.

 

[ohmhead]

Well its hotter working outside in the florida sun not to be funny but our breakers run hot in the summer months around august 110 deg is average normal temp on anything electrical outdoors you think it would trip but it does not they hold steady .

 

[AV ELECTRIC]

I believe in California you have to be licensed to do electrical work unless you have a contractors license . He may not be qualified to do this work . The circuit could be overloaded that is a lot of lights to be added to an existing circuit .

 

[AV ELECTRIC]

Title 24 may apply to adding these new fixtures also .

 

[Howard Burger]

Will, welcome to the forum. Yours is a good question. I suggest that you don't let some contributors (perceived) wise-guy answers throw you since anybody can post a comment (really off base posts are booted by the mods). Just roll with it, there are alot of very knowledgeable folks out there who will help a guy, as you see from most of the posts, here. Keep coming back!

 

[kwired]

I thought this forum was to share knowledge for the betterment of all professionals here. I never once said the breaker was "too hot". I simply said it was hotter than the other circuits and included that it was within normal operating temperature. My concern was that the temperature anomaly on the circuit which was altered by an unlicensed person could be indicative of a deficiency. Sorry I dared to ask. Additionally, there is no AHJ paying my budget and why is that any concern? We are here to share and gain knowledge.

sorry if I come across the wrong way. you seemed concerned about the heat produced within a breaker even though it was within the breaker ratings. I was merely trying to point out that I thought this was normal and why.

my last comment was based on the fact that you mentioned you were doing an inspection. I have never heard of an AHJ installaton inspection (maybe this is not what you were there for)especially on dwellings using thermal imaging equipment, as it is more of a problem solving type of equipment instead of an inspection tool.

 

[electricmanscott]

I thought this forum was to share knowledge for the betterment of all professionals here. I never once said the breaker was "too hot". I simply said it was hotter than the other circuits and included that it was within normal operating temperature. My concern was that the temperature anomaly on the circuit which was altered by an unlicensed person could be indicative of a deficiency. Sorry I dared to ask. Additionally, there is no AHJ paying my budget and why is that any concern? We are here to share and gain knowledge.

A little touchy aren't we? The answers given were perfectly legit.

 

[mivey]

I thought this forum was to share knowledge for the betterment of all professionals here. I never once said the breaker was "too hot". I simply said it was hotter than the other circuits and included that it was within normal operating temperature. My concern was that the temperature anomaly on the circuit which was altered by an unlicensed person could be indicative of a deficiency. Sorry I dared to ask. Additionally, there is no AHJ paying my budget and why is that any concern? We are here to share and gain knowledge.

Welcome to the forum. Don't perceive bluntness as bitterness. Most of the posts here are pretty casual. We have some members who can be mean but I don't think any of those posters fall in that category and I don't think any of them intended any ill will. When they start calling you names, then you can start to fret. :grin:

kwired was probably just curious. A lot of inspection departments run on a shoestring budget and barely give the inspectors the resources they need to do their jobs, much less provide a nice thermal camera.