Service change over.

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Service change over.


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KP2

Senior Member
Location
New Milford, CT
When cutting and tapping is thier a code, OSHA, or POCO rule that states weather the grounded conductor is the;

first off and last on,

or

last off and first on.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
If you are an employee of an electrical contractor OSHA prohibits you from doing that work hot at all even with proper PPE. (Yeah I know we all do it or have done it)

If you are the owner of the company OSHA does not apply to you at all.
 

KP2

Senior Member
Location
New Milford, CT
I'm reffering to a residential overhead service change. In CT CL&P issues a cut and tap card to allow us to re-energize a service after upgrades or change overs. I'm asking about the bare grounded conductor from the X-former.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
I'm reffering to a residential overhead service change. In CT CL&P issues a cut and tap card to allow us to re-energize a service after upgrades or change overs. I'm asking about the bare grounded conductor from the X-former.

Yes, OSHA will not allow electrians to do that work hot no matter what order you do it.

1910.333(a)(1)

"Deenergized parts." Live parts to which an employee may be exposed shall be deenergized before the employee works on or near them, unless the employer can demonstrate that deenergizing introduces additional or increased hazards or is infeasible due to equipment design or operational limitations. Live parts that operate at less than 50 volts to ground need not be deenergized if there will be no increased exposure to electrical burns or to explosion due to electric arcs.

Note 1: Examples of increased or additional hazards include interruption of life support equipment, deactivation of emergency alarm systems, shutdown of hazardous location ventilation equipment, or removal of illumination for an area.

Note 2: Examples of work that may be performed on or near energized circuit parts because of infeasibility due to equipment design or operational limitations include testing of electric circuits that can only be performed with the circuit energized and work on circuits that form an integral part of a continuous industrial process in a chemical plant that would otherwise need to be completely shut down in order to permit work on one circuit or piece of equipment.

Note 3: Work on or near deenergized parts is covered by paragraph (b) of this section.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
The best answer I can give is that I habitually connect any EGC first, grounded conductor second, and hot(s) last, and disassemble in the opposite order. I do this regardless of energization condition, because you-know-what happens.



Added: Until/unless corrected, my vote is wrong, as the choices are worded pooorly. They should have been "First on and Last off" and First off and Last on."
 
Last edited:

shepelec

Senior Member
Location
Palmer, MA
For that matter, how do the utilities do it? (work hot)

I am all for being safe but sometimes I think it is a little over board.

Personally I think OSHA is more of a lap dog for the insurance companies.

Obviously this is just my little opinion.;)
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Since the grounded conductor is bare we always remove it first and push it far out of the way so we can work on the hot condcutors. That allows you to work on the hot conductors without worrying about contacting the grounded conductor because it is now disconnected. Same is true on reconnect, hots first, grounded last. Push the grounded conductor far out of the way and connect the hots. After the hots are insulated connect the grounded conductor. All of this assumes that the load has been completely disconnected.
 

KP2

Senior Member
Location
New Milford, CT
Since the grounded conductor is bare we always remove it first and push it far out of the way so we can work on the hot condcutors. That allows you to work on the hot conductors without worrying about contacting the grounded conductor because it is now disconnected. Same is true on reconnect, hots first, grounded last. Push the grounded conductor far out of the way and connect the hots. After the hots are insulated connect the grounded conductor. All of this assumes that the load has been completely disconnected.

This is my thinking as well. My colleges however, feel that if the grounded conductor is removed and you make accidental contact to the house side of the grounded conductor that this may energize the entire grounding system of the house.

Any Thoughts on That?????
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Why does the power company let us still cut and tap if it's against OSHA.

Because that has nothing to do with them. That is like asking why the power company lets us drive above the speed limit. It is the employers responsibility to know the rules.

For that matter, how do the utilities do it? (work hot)

The OSHA section I posted does not apply to utility workers, they have different rules.

I am all for being safe but sometimes I think it is a little over board.

Maybe so but the opening poster was asking about the rules not what we think about them. :)

Personally I think OSHA is more of a lap dog for the insurance companies.

I do not think there is any connection at all between OSHA and the insurance companies, the insurance companies take care of themselves pretty darn well.

Insurance companies are proactive while OSHA is reactive.


All that said, I fully understand there is a real world out there and drops are cut and made up hot by electricians all the time. That still does not change the actual OSHA rules.
 

KP2

Senior Member
Location
New Milford, CT
If you are an employee of an electrical contractor OSHA prohibits you from doing that work hot at all even with proper PPE. (Yeah I know we all do it or have done it)

If you are the owner of the company OSHA does not apply to you at all.

So when you did cut and tap, how did you do it?
 

KP2

Senior Member
Location
New Milford, CT
I can see I'm loosing this one, however at least the topic is based on preferance and not that I've done it wrong all these years. (well that's what I'm going to tell myself).
Thanks for posting.
Kevin
 

muckusmc

Senior Member
Location
Roebling, NJ
We were always taught - Neutral last to disconnect and first to connect - to help prevent any damage to equipment within the building that operates using a neutral reguardless of voltage.
 

220/221

Senior Member
Location
AZ
I generally disconnect and reconnect the grounded conductor first.....after I make sure it's not loaded;)



Wait....I mean, I am not allowed to touch the POCO wires so I wouldn't know.
 
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